Let's all talk about MUMSNET shall we?

[CliffRichardSucksEggsInHell]

I'm pasting a post that is getting lost in the fighting and bitching going on. I hope it makes a difference. I have to go as I have ill children to tend to, but feel free to post your own thoughts on how we can get Mumsnet back to normality.

Mumsnet has been made to look like it's dominated by swearing, airheaded, middle class mothers in The Independent with nowt better to do than stomp around in their Boden jeans having a tant about a group of anonymous posters on a parenting site.

I'm sure that for the Moldie members it must be lovely to be able to discuss personal things in private and confidence without some name changing troll pissing all over your posts. It must be lovely to disclose your thoughts and problems with like-minded friends without worrying about it being taken the wrong way or having those dreaded Mumsnetters that you don't like, daring to come onto your thread.

As a lot of us who have been on Mumsnet for many years, it does hurt to have people name-changing to make personal and very hurtful attacks on you, which I presume never happens on Moldies.

So may I make a suggestion? Instead of bickering like the loons The Independent clearly think we are, how about we make Mumsnet even better? A site we can be proud of and feel safe posting on?

MNHQ - is there any way that name-changers who do so to personally attack other posters, can have a stiffer punishment? Perhaps banning from the site with no warning? Is there any way we can make Mumsnet a nicer, safer place to post?

Because right now, all we seem to be doing is giving the Moldies justification for the existance of their site.

I'm sure we'd all like to be able to post without fear of being personally attacked or having our real life covers blown. So why don't we work towards that this New Year? Because if I wanted to join Mumsnet right now for some support and advice, I'd be really put off.

And isn't that what Mumsnet is for? For people who are struggling, who need a bit of support and advice? Who can liaise in confidence with other parents and share experiences, problems and achievements? If I wanted a little forum to just talk to friends I can set one up, but I joined Mumsnet to get help and advice and to offer some where I could. I still get a kick out of feeling that my post has really helped, that my contribution has been worth something to someone. And whenever I have an issue, Mumsnet is one of the first places I turn to for advice and support.

Let's keep it that way shall we?

Who's with me on this one?

do you mean Talk Ruty or the whole site ?

well Chat would be a start. But i have made a decision not to discuss my dcs in much detail from now on, unless i namechange. And i can't be the only one. I can see totally why Moldies was created, but I would like MNHQ to consider enabling MNers to share some of the benefits of that kind of privacy, partial or otherwise. The alternative is that people get increasingly wary of sharing details about their lives.

and i think the accusations against justabout, particulary as the posters making the accusations were unaware of her posting history, were extremely yuck.

but one should be cautious about what one discloses to an anonymous open access forum.everything her is reproducible and most of it searchable.the informality and recognition of posters/topics can potentially lull one into a cosy familiarity

problem,being even if only say 3 posters on a thread there could be 45watchers.reading not contributing.so we have no idea who the actual reader is. for that reason i think some caution is absolutely necessary

CyberFriends are a post-modern phenomenon,the illusion if friendship (familiarity and frequency with shared confidence without any actual substance)not real,based upon words on a screen,with each participant filling ion their own blanks e.g. VeryFrequentPoster is really nice she is always so kind on antenatal topic.well actually yes one likes the posts but does not know the poster.there is a difference

the great liberation of MN is the ability to participate spontaneously,anonymously,without other stuff that gets in the way face to face eg prejudices about looks/class/size

as i see it enjoy,have a laugh do be sensible and safe.No MN grudges and gripes

I see your pov, SM, but what I've learned from all the moldie business is that, for some, online friendship - even where you never meet - are as real and warm and wonderful as rl friendships. So, for those people, the hurt has been real.

I can't say I feel exactly that way, but there are lots of posters on mn who I think of very fondly. And when someone goes out of their way to find something on google for you, or a shop that sells the thing your dc is desperate for, or gives you their most precious commodity TIME or the wisdom of their profession or cheers you up when you feel craptacular or simply says Oh poor you, it's a little bit ungrateful not to acknowledge that as anything more than an illusion of friendship. It's kindness and on such stuff friendships are built.

I would suggest that we each have our own definition of friendship and while in all honesty mine is probably quite similar to yours, it's not the same for everyone. And who am I to decree what qualifies a friendship?

I don't mean to be argumentative, but it's been a huge learning curve for me. I was utterly amazed at the hurt caused by moldies and it's taken a fair bit of thinking (oh my poor brian!) to understand the strength of feeling.

Someone will now come along and tell me I've got it all wrong, which I probably have, because as I said I don't see things the way some mners do. But the nature of online relationships is not set in, er, Microstone.

Poor brian indeed!

I have mentioned the m-word twice in the above post. Not sure if that's allowed.

Bugger.

[hair shirt]

I think what might start to come out more strongly here as MN gets bigger is a widening gap between what MNHQ want and what MN posters want.

MN posters want it to be a lovely place to chat and to give and ask for support.

Of course MNHQ want that too, but even more than that, they want (well, need) it to make money because it's a business after all.

So I agree, monitoring people's first few posts would help keep the trolls down, but from MNHQ point of view this would mean paying lots more people to monitor the forums - not great.

Similarly, getting everyone to register before posting would be nice, but it would decrease the traffic - so again, MNHQ won't be keen.

In fact this whole drama has I'm sure been great for attracting curious people to the site. Terrible for MN posters, but not all bad for MNHQ.

Really the only way to be reasonably sure you know who's reading your stuff is to post on a closed board. Moldies for example, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that there are other less well-known MN offshoots as well.

It's not in MNHQ's best interests to sort this out I'm afraid. And there will always be malicious lurkers and trolls on a big, well-publicised board like MN.

Sorry, I talked about registering before posting, but you already have to do that. I meant registering before reading. Someone flicking through google with a screaming baby on one arm isn't going to have the patience to register before they read. I'm sure the site traffic would drop if that was the rule.

you know i don't understand the rush toward greater restrictions/eligibility to post.we are big girls,do we need additional checks and balances?largely MN is self regulating,and posters can and do regulate.there isn't a reticence to say if a post is offensive rubbish

aren't all these proposed restrictions likely to stifle and inhibit spontaneity,rather than encourage better postings

yes it is self regulating, bur it is not MNers that are the problem it is googlers. Moldies was apparently born out of several posters' bad experience with stalkers and trolls here. i really don't see what is so hard about registering to read, considering especially we are talking about children.

I can see it might help keep out trolls, but I think it would keep out more people who needed help - I found MN first by googling.

I know that when I'm googling a techie problem, if I come across an answer on a site you have to register for, I just click in the next result, because I want an answer as soon as possible - and I don't have a screaming baby and a toddler to cope with (just a lot of teachers who can't make their Smartboards work...)

i guess you have to weigh up what is more important. If enough posters get worried about posting personal stuff then the quality of help will be diminished anyway.

I'm pretty paranoid about disclosing my RL identity - nothing sinister - just privacy reasons for me and my family, but I don't see why that should affect the quality of help I might give or be given.

well parallel issue,someone is saying they googled a poster and found personal details eg DOB,children name

i value my privacy and anonymity a lot

Who would threaten anyone with that but a complete arsewipe though?

Not sure I understand SM. Do you mean that someone found out that info without the person having disclosed it on their profile or in a post?

Completely agree with your earlier post, BTW.

ok i think from a forename,some searching MN and FB details were elicited.must stress it was non malicious and in context of a thread the searcher was demonstrating the ease of doing so,and to warn off about too much disclosure

but hell,scary or what!

You can find out a lot about someone from searching them on Mumsnet - hence our suggestion for chat to be available only to those who have registered, as it's chat and aibu that seem to have the most personal details. Posters seem to be less cautious when posting in chat.

Custy has been stalked by someone using only info about her from Mumsnet.

It's a shit thing to do, but people do it. She never found out who it was, could even be someone who still posts. All very paranoid inducing stuff.

It's lovely that they have somewhere safe to go, these Moldies, but the whole process of deciding who benefitted from that was really crap. We should ALL be able to post relatively safely. Of course you can't guarantee safety on a site this big, but you can tighten some of the bolts perhaps?

Really? Dear god spome people are nuts

maybe a degree of caution is needed by posters,dont disclose too much.or MNHQ delete all threads after say 3months