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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Let's all talk about MUMSNET shall we?

223 replies

CliffRichardSucksEggsInHell · 29/12/2008 17:29

I'm pasting a post that is getting lost in the fighting and bitching going on. I hope it makes a difference. I have to go as I have ill children to tend to, but feel free to post your own thoughts on how we can get Mumsnet back to normality.

Mumsnet has been made to look like it's dominated by swearing, airheaded, middle class mothers in The Independent with nowt better to do than stomp around in their Boden jeans having a tant about a group of anonymous posters on a parenting site.

I'm sure that for the Moldie members it must be lovely to be able to discuss personal things in private and confidence without some name changing troll pissing all over your posts. It must be lovely to disclose your thoughts and problems with like-minded friends without worrying about it being taken the wrong way or having those dreaded Mumsnetters that you don't like, daring to come onto your thread.

As a lot of us who have been on Mumsnet for many years, it does hurt to have people name-changing to make personal and very hurtful attacks on you, which I presume never happens on Moldies.

So may I make a suggestion? Instead of bickering like the loons The Independent clearly think we are, how about we make Mumsnet even better? A site we can be proud of and feel safe posting on?

MNHQ - is there any way that name-changers who do so to personally attack other posters, can have a stiffer punishment? Perhaps banning from the site with no warning? Is there any way we can make Mumsnet a nicer, safer place to post?

Because right now, all we seem to be doing is giving the Moldies justification for the existance of their site.

I'm sure we'd all like to be able to post without fear of being personally attacked or having our real life covers blown. So why don't we work towards that this New Year? Because if I wanted to join Mumsnet right now for some support and advice, I'd be really put off.

And isn't that what Mumsnet is for? For people who are struggling, who need a bit of support and advice? Who can liaise in confidence with other parents and share experiences, problems and achievements? If I wanted a little forum to just talk to friends I can set one up, but I joined Mumsnet to get help and advice and to offer some where I could. I still get a kick out of feeling that my post has really helped, that my contribution has been worth something to someone. And whenever I have an issue, Mumsnet is one of the first places I turn to for advice and support.

Let's keep it that way shall we?

Who's with me on this one?

OP posts:
footballsgalore · 29/12/2008 21:35

I also think we should speak up when people are being particularly nasty. Yes, have a differing opinion, but express it without slagging off the other person.
Maybe we all (the royal we, not us in particular! ) lose the basic manners we would have in rl simply because of our own annonymity.

KnickersOnMaHead · 29/12/2008 21:36

Message withdrawn

Aitch · 29/12/2008 21:41

agree with OP, although not sure about namechanging being the problem. but whatever... i know what it's like to be supported by the MN Massive, the help and kindness i got when dd2 was born i will NEVER forget, and it was only 17 weeks ago so i know the heart of MN is still beating well and truly.

MaureenMLove · 29/12/2008 21:42

I must be far too laid back for this site. I totally ignored the Moldies thread and if I have been on the same thread as a troll, I totally ignore them! Very rarely, does anyone hack me off, because I walk away to rl!

Don't get me wrong, MN is totally invaluable to me and I totally understand that for some, it is their only lifeline, but some people really do take things to seriously. The number of good people on MN, completely outweighs the bad people on here and I think if we just learn to ignore the obvious inflamatory posts, then MN would be a better place.

IMHO, there is no need to delay a name change. I have had occasion to namechange and when I do, I need advice or help NOW, not in 24 hours!

StealthPoHoHoHo · 29/12/2008 21:44

But MML, why is that? (Obviously I don't want specifics!) Is it not fair to say if you can't wait then MN isn't the right place for the problem?
(Genuine question btw)

MaureenMLove · 29/12/2008 21:49

Mainly because my bessie mate is an MNer! Dunno really. I'm sure there are people on here, who turn to MN for advice that is immediate though. Like the ones that want to say they are PG, but don't want to say it in rl yet or those that have to/want to make a decision on an abusive relationship. 24 hours could make a big difference.

SoupDragon · 30/12/2008 09:20

The most memorable trolls were not namechangers. Not in the malicious changing-to-be-rude sense.

Every time something like this blows up, people start trying to change stuff so it doesn't happen again. The truth is that nothing can stop it. Other than setting up a small private forum somewhere else...

"Is it not fair to say if you can't wait then MN isn't the right place for the problem?"

Well, no, not really. Sometimes MN is the only place that's open/accessible. Sometimes the anonymity of a forum is a life saver and I wouldn't want to take that away for anything.

3littlefrogs · 30/12/2008 09:34

I agree, cliffrichard, and I did respond to your post on the other thread, but it probably got lost among all the other stuff.

The saddest thing about all this is that MN has been totally misrepresented in the press.

I joined because I read about MN in a newspaper article. I wanted to offer, and receive, help and support, and by and large that is exactly what has happened, over the couple of years I have been here.

I did once get very badly sucked in by a troll, and it was not a nice experience, but it was a valuable learning experience nontheless.

There is nothing we can do that will change the past, but those of us that are still "here" can continue to make MN a welcoming place for newbies. That way, MN will continue to build up experience and expertise for the future.

3littlefrogs · 30/12/2008 09:36

I have changed my name a few times, but only because my particular post on those occasions would give away my RL identity. I think that is fair enough.

Flamespar · 30/12/2008 09:51

I like namechanging, I like not being "me" all the time.

I know that banning people is more complicated for MNHQ than it seems to us, I don't know how they could change it.

I don't know what can be done to change it all back to how it was, or even if it can be changed. For myself, I am only on a handful of threads now (from my "you are on more than..." every day). I was getting dragged into caring about stuff (whatever the Moldie type scandal was at the time) that don't matter but were getting into me so much that it was affecting how I was seeing the world.

My depression is a hell of a lot more manageable without MN as it has been.

Outing repeat nasty trolls would just lead to lynching.

Time to name change could help, but you could just create a new account to become "hesbeatingmerightnow" or something.

ChestnutsRoastingonanOpenFlier · 30/12/2008 09:59

agree with op, but alot of the bad threads passed me by, and I haven't a clue what all the moldie business is about, even though I started to read the thread.

What I DO know is this - the fundamental basis of mumsnet hasn't changed - if I need help however small or large a problem I know I can get an answer on mumsnet. It is invaluable.

Rhubarb · 30/12/2008 16:39

There have been many more nasty trolls on here than there used to be and many more personal attacks and nasty bullying.

I suppose that's because Mumsnet is bigger and therefore more susceptible. However sensitive issues ARE discussed on Mumsnet, our own issues, our relationships, problems with our children - it needs to have a degree of safety. None of us wants to be 'outed' in real life, but I'm sure that if someone could really be arsed, they could gather together all the info we've ever posted and find out a good deal about us.

I don't know what the answer is.

When I first joined Mumsnet I was a first time mum. I had been through the most horrendous depression during my pregnancy and now being a mum left me feeling alienated and very much alone. I saw Mumsnet listed as a parenting site in a newspaper and as we had just got our first pc, I thought I'd take a look. I got sucked in straight away. What struck me at once was the respect I got from other posters.

It didn't matter where I lived, how old I was, what accent I had or what job I did (or didn't do), as far as Mumsnet was concerned, we were all equal. My contributions were taken just as seriously as the GP's or the journalist for The Times. That was the most remarkable thing about Mumsnet. I didn't feel judged at all, in fact the reason I divulged so much personal information at that stage was because I knew I would not be condemned or judged for it, but supported and listened to. That made a huge difference to me.

And of course the kindess of Mumsnet was apparent. When I was struggling to meet other mums, judged by real life people, cut off from childless friends, Mumsnet rallied round me. JanH discovered she lived near me and contacted me, within a week she came to visit, bringing a gift for my dd.

When I found out I was pregnant again, Aloha sent me some maternity clothes as I couldn't afford any. I was encouraged in my plans for a home birth, WWW was due at the same time as me and we offered each other support and encouragment, listening to each other's fears.

When I went to France, ggglimpopo offered her support and she was our main contact in Bordeaux. Through her help I got a job and some invaluable support.

Secret Santa was set up and I was nominated and received so many lovely gifts I cried buckets at the generosity of strangers! When I came back from France some Mumsnetters sent me parcels of French food and things to cheer me up.

It breaks my heart to see the site like this. To see those people who were so supportive of me, who I shared my life with, leave in this way. Of course I'm upset that I wasn't invited, but more than that, I'm upset because those were some of the people who made Mumsnet what it is. I feel like the site and myself are being abandoned. I'm sure Mumsnet can be great again - so many new people are joining who are just as kind, just as supportive, just as inspirational.

However the goodness of Mumsnet is being overshadowed by this bitterness, this bad feeling. Of course the whole Moldies thing was badly managed and if they had been more honest, more open with us, perhaps none of this would have happened. But it has and I really don't think harping on and on and on about it anymore will stop the hurt or mend broken friendships. We need to move on. There are posts out there, begging for help, that are being overlooked. Mumsnetters are so busy bitching and sniping and accusing that they are forgetting why they joined Mumsnet in the first place, and why others are still joining.

If you want Mumsnet back the way it was then you have to do something about that.

It's up to all of us now to make Mumsnet great again!

JeremyVile · 30/12/2008 16:59

Not in any way ttrying to dismiss what you're saying Rhubar but it's all too easy to think that ones own personal view of MN is the general view iyswim.
For every poster who says "MN isn't what it used to be, we need to restore it to it's former glory" / " Mn is not what it used to be, I'm orf" there will be dozens more who are thinking "Eh? it's flipping great".
I reckon the vast majority of MN ticks along just fine at all times, unaware or uninerested in the more political side of things.
I haven't been posting for 6 months (will be going back to not posting soon too), partly because at the time the place was driving me insane, or rather certain posters/groups were, but you know, that was my own fault for feeling drawn to certain topics. I could easily have got stuck into that majority section that ticks along nicely.
I'm rambling here really, I just think it shouldn't be forgotten that MN is still as fabulous to most posters as it used to be for others.
WRT the troll thing, I don't honestly think anything will change it. And the many opposing reactions to trolls/suspected trolls doesn't help. Personally I'm all for speaking openly if you're suspicious but I know thats not necessarily a popular approach.

Threadworm · 30/12/2008 17:01

Since you are soon to be off again Jeremy Vile, I just want to say hello before you go, and that I've missed seeing you around the place. Hope all is well with you.

BALD · 30/12/2008 17:02

Me too Thready

Hi JV hope all is well with you and yours

JeremyVile · 30/12/2008 17:11

Thank you boys and thank you thready, how lovely.
I'm really good, thanks. Settling into life as a single mum.
Hope you're well too.
I might make this a 6 monthly thing??
God knows I dont have the will power to be here any more often, I'd have to take up smoking again, I can't be expected to do both!

ChristMarsSleighdy · 30/12/2008 17:12

JV... my doppelganger! You've returned!

Tinker · 30/12/2008 17:14

I'm really not so bothered about whether mn has changed or not. It has (I've been here 7 years ) but in good and bad ways so I'm ok with that.

I don't think the namechanging is the problem. However, my "controversial" suggestion is - delete ALL threads after 30 days. Or, rather than only having Chat be deleted after 30 days, have a few that are archived but for the default to be deletion. It's what happens on the Guardian site. It's this being able to delve about in the archives which causes trouble, I think. Especially since we aren't able to delete our own posts (again, GU does let you do so, and Edit them, with 30 minutes).

The same subjects come up time and time again anyway, is there a need for such a huge archive??

JeremyVile · 30/12/2008 17:19

Mars! Merry (belated) christmas twinny
K Marsy, from tonight you have a whole half a year to figure the password. If you manage it, please make me look great - nothing about crabs

3littlefrogs · 30/12/2008 17:24

I agree with tinker. It is all too easy to post too much detail when feeling lonely, vulnerable or distressed. OK, so there may be some useful information lost when threads are deleted, but there are enough people in the "here and now" to come back and offer advice. (I am thinking of the threads on weaning, toilet training etc).

scaredoflove · 30/12/2008 17:32

I think in the main it hasn't changed that much in the time I've been here

I did notice a change over the last year or so but recently it has been not so bad

When I joined the some more prolific names would berate people starting topics done before, cod insulted everyone and everything, people laughed at the prams and the huns, and bump threads out of existence just because they didn't like the subject or what was being said, shouting troll at things for no good reason other than being a little odd/unsavoury, posting real troll threads for fun. New people come along and think that is how MN works/is...so they were ruder and more mean and more shouty, made up troll threads, shouted TROLL, then new more new people ...and on it goes. People wanted to be noticed and did it by copying some of the worst parts

Recently, it has appeared to have settled down again. I think it will find an even keel once the problems of the last few weeks have settled.

Fundamentally, it is still a great place to be, where else can you cry while reading one post and snort coffee out your nose at another 3 mins later?

Rhubarb · 30/12/2008 17:40

I think the changes I'm on about happened over Christmas, with Moldies and all that. I'd never seen so much bitching and back-stabbing and just horrible horrible things said to each other. I guess it's because so many people were feeling so hurt and betrayed. I did say that Mumsnet didn't judge, you were equal in the eyes of Mumsnet because you were anonymous. I guess Moldies changed all of that as people felt they were less equal and judged - by those they considered friends.

It's all calmed down now, thank goodness. But many lovely people have left Mumsnet and others will post on Moldies and not on here. Which is just a crying shame. With others not so.

But I've noticed a huge increase in the number of false posts - people pretending to be single mums or pretending to commit suicide or in abusive relationships etc and I've also seen more abusive name-changers in the past few months too.

I actually agree with Tinker. I think that unless you specifically ask for your thread not to be deleted - that they should go after, say, a year. I'd feel safer with that and it stops oldies complaining about old topics going round and round.

scaredoflove · 30/12/2008 18:01

Unfortunately, the MNOldies thing has happened over a period of less traffic through the site. If it hadn't have been xmas, it probably wouldn't have been quite so prolific

As hard and sad it has been to read at times, I think it has had an overall good affect. Many people have spoken to others they maybe wouldn't have spoken to and kindness prevailed in the main. Some of it has been so very funny and has showed some people in a fantastic light

I'm glad it's calmer and hope this place can now continue doing what it does best

ChristMarsSleighdy · 30/12/2008 18:01
Flamespar · 30/12/2008 18:14
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