Unpleasant thread answers, but not ‘personal attacks’? Does it make Mumsnet into a place you don’t want to engage with as much, or at all?

[NoCommentingFromNowOn]

I feel there are so many answers that are rude or goady or similar, to fairly innocuous threads. Does anyone else feel this? Can (or will) Mumsnet do anything about them?

If I say to someone ‘fuck off you cunt’ it would get deleted. But if I pull someone down repeatedly, ask the same question over and over, try my best to be an absolute arsehole on a thread, my posts would not be deleted.

When Mumsnet say ‘not in the spirit of the site’ what do they actually mean? Because I see posters dragging someone down all the time. I know sometimes a thread will offer incredible support to someone, but if you’ve ever seen a thread go the other way with vulnerable people spoken to like shite, people will think twice about posting in a vulnerable state and will go elsewhere for support. Or they will bottle it all up.

If a lot of the comments on here were said in the workplace, or school they would be considered as bullying and people (HR, teachers, bosses) will put a stop to that behaviour. But unless it’s directed at someone specific, it won’t be deleted here.

And yes, I know I could scroll on by, and I find I am doing that, or simply reading and not participating. But I know lots of posters feel similar because I see the posts saying so.

Every single time I come on here I see really unpleasant posts and it’s such a shame, I don’t understand why they’re not deleted. Sometimes Mumsnet have already posted on those threads and are aware of them. But still they stand.

Am I in a minority here? Shall I just catch up with my saved threads then call it a day? Although, as I say, I’ve seen other people say it too 🤷‍♀️.

Read the room OP!

Don’t you realise how fortunate you are to have a job / child / house / meal on the table / car / DH etc.

‘read the room’ should trigger an automatic comment deletion

Nasty comments, if not deleted are best ignored. Don't engage and treat like trolls. You really need a thick skin on social media and the ability to switch off mentally when people turn nasty.

Yes that’s true. I’ve got 5 (yes, FIVE) tins of baked beans in my cupboard. I’m extremely fortunate.

But that’s the thing, I don’t find anywhere that allows such viciousness to remain, or possibly with a mild ‘hey everyone, not in the spirit etc etc’ that does nothing really 🤷‍♀️.

Facebook is the worst. Nothing seems to go against their community standards unless you want to sell something on marketplace with pet, in the title. At least on here, most things get removed if they're really nasty.

There's a limit to how much they can delete, though. There are hundreds and hundreds of the types of comments you mention in your OP. It is pretty awful, but I think that in practice the ethos/vibe of the site is a grassroots-created thing. Moderation can only deal with the worst cases.

The best solution would be if we all did our bit to make the site kinder. Often what you see is that mildly unpleasant comments embolden others to make harsher comments, so a thread spirals down and down as people try to outdo one another in aggression.

So I'm trying to think twice before posting in a snippy self-righteous way (I don't always succeed!), and find a kinder way of responding.

I also think we should call people out if they are gratuitously aggressive. Or, if the OP is clearly posting in need of support, and the thread is at risk of being derailed by responses to a nasty poster, we could direct our response to the OP herself and make it clear to her that the nasty posters are not worth attending to and don't represent the majority view.

I also think a victim telling a person who has repeatedly goaded them (without what counts as a personal attack) to fuck off should be read in context and maybe edited rather than deleted.

Under a different name I was once told repeatedly by a certain poster that I clearly preferred my dog to my disabled child based on the flimsiest of excuses (that I wrote "my child" but then in a later post wrote "ddog".) I refuted this politely at first but this poster would not drop it as I got more and more distressed and offended. In the end I told her to fuck off and my post was deleted whilst hers were left to stand. Mumsnet said I hadn't reported hers so they couldn't be expected to delete them, but I think moderators should look at context in these situations a bit more carefully, where a person has a decent posting history and isn't known to be frequently deleted. The moderation "lacks curiosity" sometimes...like suspending a child who has hit someone without identifying, or even exploring, that the person they hit was stealing their dinner money and threatening them every day.

Mumsnet did eventually delete all the other person's posts and ban the poster, but only because i fought my corner behind the scenes.

I am often shocked by how nasty the commenters can get. I read Mumsnet because when the comments are good, they are really good. I learn a lot from the advice, wisdom, and insight here.

But I’m not here for mean, nasty, stupid bullies, and I’m too sensitive for them! I can’t just ignore and move on, as advised. I get quite agitated to see how vulnerable people are treated (often ganged up on!). I don’t want to see it, don’t want to be told to ignore it, don’t want to be on a site with so much cruelty. I wish it would stop! I’m active on various social media platforms, and I’m an influencer, and on none of my social medias does anyone come close to the cruelty I see on here. Not even remotely! This is not social media; it’s something else. I don’t know what.

My guess is that if nothing is done, more bullies will be drawn to this site and make a blood sport out of cruelty, and there will be more and more of this. I predict it’ll become intolerable for me soon enough, but for now, the good outweighs the bad. Because the good is brilliant. I wish the bad would stop!

I used to get upset by 'nasty' replies here and on other sites. Then I realied, at the end of the day it's just something some person said on the internet.

If they were harsh because they got totally the wrong end of the stick of what I was saying, it's not worth my time explaining to them otherwise - this is such a huge site it's unlikely they'd even remember my name if they saw it on another thread. If they've just decided to be a twat about it, then they're not someone whose good opinion should matter to me anyway. Also, sometimes people are harsh and they are also right and I'm prepared to accept when that's the case.

I agree with this.

To often either the OP or other posters engage with posters like this. You have to ignore them. It's the only way to take their power.

I also agree with pp who says a mildly unpleasant post will prompt more and more unpleasant ones. Contributing your own kind, thought out post is the best counter balance to this.

I don’t always agree with outright nastiness.

But your comparison with a workplace made me reflect that actually, I would absolutely love to tell some colleagues what I really think. I obviously don’t, because it’s not the done thing.

I do worry that we are living in these bubbles of ‘you can’t say that!’ That when in a space where you are anonymous and can say it, it floods out easily.

I think the goadiness can flow in both directions. A lot of OP’s will make me think ‘crickey, you are a very foolish person’ and they don’t need to be patted on the head and told there there, you’re doing an amazing job.

I don't think insults and other things like mocking are allowed anymore and yet, until 1 year ago: are you on glue - was allowed. Or : give your head a wobble - from someone who just dislikes your opinion

be careful to understand that disliking someone's opinion does not make them a bully - that is true also

or some common sense logic which expressed in a straightforward way also is not a bully ..

I just scroll on past those comments esp. ones that quote me trying to pick a fight.

I'm more irritated by the threads that look made up just to try and hit the top list.

I think a lot of people come on here to work out their frustrations against the world and be incredibly unpleasant.

However, I ALSO think that some people give far too much of a shit about what some anonymous idiot on an internet forum has said to or about them. As it genuinely doesn’t matter.

It can be irritating (and I do wish that MN had a block button), but it’s not a massive deal, imo.

What amazes me is how often it’s the second post. It makes me wonder if it’s a bot thing.

Yes, I do think there are often horrible responses that seem determined to interpret the OP in the worst possible ways, or just to crush them when they are having a bad time. I really notice the lack of moderation here, compared to other online places I frequent. It does put me off reading or posting, and discourages me from recommending the site to others. Some of the less-frequented topics are much better - AIBU and anything showing up in "Trending" is going to be worst.

The Times were having problems with this in their comments section after the articles and they dramatically improved things by stopping anonymous usernames. All subscribers who leave a comment must now use their real names. The nasty comments have dried up.

I appreciate the fact that MN is a ‘safe space’ where people have the freedom to robustly express strongly held opinions which may be outside the mainstream of public discourse. A mainstream which is very narrow, very restrictive & the limits of which are strictly enforced.

I accept that when I log into MN I am likely to read things I disagree with, posted by people I would probably dislike if I met them IRL. That’s absolutely fine by me. I respect their right to express themselves as long as they show the same respect to me.

MN should be very proud of its record on facilitating debate on contentious issues, particularly that of women’s rights vs trans rights. Free speech is a fundamentally good thing. Long may it continue.

I report posts if they are really unpleasant even if they clearly aren’t personal attacks. They generally get deleted.

You can strongly disagree with someone and still be polite. It’s not hard.

I think there are a lot of really nasty spiteful people about. It’s sad.

We need a jellyfish or bee sting reaction button. There was a light hearted thread this evening and no need for the stinging rudeness of one poster.

I was on MN almost twenty years ago, for a good few years, then deleted my account (because I was spending too long on MN) but back then posters made exactly the same predictions (the famous "nest of vipers" reputation dates from almost the beginning, before I joined).

It's no better and no worse than twenty years ago on here.

Other social media has generally less anonymity - there's some element of a personal profile and followers and photos on the social sites where influencers exist; that limits the kind of posts people only make anonymously to some extent, but on big public groups there are plenty of people posting worse things than you'd ever find on MN. Facebook has introduced anonymous posting so that will probably/possibly increase.

The dire predictions about MN never come to anything though - some kind of equilibrium was reached many years ago.

Full disclosure - a comment of mine was deleted because I said someone needed training (so I’m clearly no angel).

I really have no problem with different opinions, and in fact enjoy reading them.
But when someone is in a vulnerable position, they are told they are negligent, failures, that the other posters feel sorry for their husbands, kids, and family… really sticking the boot in.

If someone is vulnerable, they can really absorb that.
I remember one woman who was upset at her husband for ignoring her wishes. So she had stopped talking to him.

I get that commenters felt she was wrong, but they absolutely went at her. They said she’s an abuser and abusing her spouse and children. “Feel awful for your kids, you’re abusive.” Etc.
She ended up in great distress, having the thread removed.

It was so unnecessarily cruel.
It felt like watching schoolyard bullies kick at someone on the ground and doing nothing. I know I’m too sensitive but I’ve always been thin skinned and don’t think it’ll change- I can’t handle it all up to the mass pile ons.

That’s so interesting! I see lots of commenters say that things have really changed since the early days when everyone was more supportive and replied to each others more instead of to OP. This is the first I read that nothing has changed and things kind of have always been like this. I didn’t know that.

I’m a seasoned Reddit user for 10 years, but only on this site for 1. I’ve watched Reddit change so much over the years I imagined the same happened here.