Unpleasant thread answers, but not ‘personal attacks’? Does it make Mumsnet into a place you don’t want to engage with as much, or at all?

[NoCommentingFromNowOn]

I feel there are so many answers that are rude or goady or similar, to fairly innocuous threads. Does anyone else feel this? Can (or will) Mumsnet do anything about them?

If I say to someone ‘fuck off you cunt’ it would get deleted. But if I pull someone down repeatedly, ask the same question over and over, try my best to be an absolute arsehole on a thread, my posts would not be deleted.

When Mumsnet say ‘not in the spirit of the site’ what do they actually mean? Because I see posters dragging someone down all the time. I know sometimes a thread will offer incredible support to someone, but if you’ve ever seen a thread go the other way with vulnerable people spoken to like shite, people will think twice about posting in a vulnerable state and will go elsewhere for support. Or they will bottle it all up.

If a lot of the comments on here were said in the workplace, or school they would be considered as bullying and people (HR, teachers, bosses) will put a stop to that behaviour. But unless it’s directed at someone specific, it won’t be deleted here.

And yes, I know I could scroll on by, and I find I am doing that, or simply reading and not participating. But I know lots of posters feel similar because I see the posts saying so.

Every single time I come on here I see really unpleasant posts and it’s such a shame, I don’t understand why they’re not deleted. Sometimes Mumsnet have already posted on those threads and are aware of them. But still they stand.

Am I in a minority here? Shall I just catch up with my saved threads then call it a day? Although, as I say, I’ve seen other people say it too 🤷‍♀️.

Can’t say it bothers me, I wouldn’t use the internet at all if it did.
It’s clear some are being nasty for nasty sake, who cares just think what unpleasant little lives they must have.
There’s still good advice on here.

I don't mind a flippant comment but I do mind ad hominem attacks based on interpreting my thread or comments in bad faith. I really feel that some people wake up looking for a fight.

Then the thread gets derailed in personal attacks and accusations. It's tedious for readers and op when it's a verbal pingpong match between 2 or 3 posters. Like, grow up! You can have different views and it doesn't mean you're a bad person for it, if it's offensive just report it.

I have deleted my account when I felt it was getting too much but invariably, I get drawn back to sign up again from reading a new thread that I feel I have something I'd really like to say to the op that hasn't been said already by other comments. Or when I want to view all the op's comments on a long thread and get tired of clicking and scanning page by page.

I think you have to have thick skin to post on here sometimes, and be willing to ignore people who are deliberately trying to get a rise ? Out of you .

it’s a shame as it stops you from having an interesting conversation or exploring different perspectives.

especially True if you have a different opinion from others, there is always someone who will happily quote you and say “oh so this doesn’t matter?!” When you absolutely did not say that something didn’t matter, just offering a different perspective/point

it’s definitely a new idea to some that people can have different opinions and views, and both sides be valid.

it’s probably also true that we often post on here when we are feeling stressed/ strong feelings, which heightens everything

Exactly this.

Mumsnet don't look at anything other than the post that's been reported. So you can watch someone getting bullied on a thread, and the moment they react, the bully reports the reaction to get it removed.

Then, the bully gets even more goady with "well, it appears Mumsnet agrees with me"

I don't know how Mumsnet action it, because it's more time to read several posts than just the one that's waved at you via the report button. Presumably they say they don't have the resources. But this lack of context deletion is a big problem when bullies use it to their advantage, and I do see that a lot.

This is EXCELLENT advice!

I've been on MN under various names for over 20 years.
I don't think it has got 'worse' - my very first post I put in AIBU as I didn't know & I got pounced on by someone I later learned was MN 'royalty. I'ld posted about something that I was really vulnerable about & it got very nasty indeed.
It used to be much smaller so you could spot / avoid the bullies & had things like regular meetups & secret santa.I've made a few good RL friends via MN.
On the plus side, very little is 'off the table' for discussion which is a refreshing contrast to RL and I have learned a huge amount on here. There is a LOT of knowledge available via MN. It can offer AMAZING advice to someone who is in a bind, stuck in an abusive marriage, needing quick advice/ long term support re a medical/legal situation.It can also offer a bit of fluffy company re tv shows/celeb nonsense if you just feel a bit lonely /bored & want some online company.

I do think the site security is poor and that more needs done / more quickly when the site is hacked (I was one whose online address was hacked & published by 'Fathers for Justice' years ago). It's no longer a wee friendly gathering place but big business and needs to be protected accordingly.

I can't say if it's better / worse than other places as its the only SM I use.

I do think it is awful at times . I particularly hate those posters who attack a very vulnerable OP who has perhaps not made the wisest of lifestyle choices . For example , why did you have another child when you couldn’t afford the ones you had . There is no point actively attacking someone after the event . I think you can eg gently suggest for them to get contraception sorted out .

I also hate the real judgey posters who know exactly what they would do in any given situation . They also have a go at the Op / others than have not reacted the way that they think they should do .
it is horrible to watch but I do see others as well as myself who will try and be supportive . The difficulty is that the OP will feel under attack and may leave . They will miss out on the supportive comments as they feel under attack from the non supportive ones .
I do always try and go with the mantra of - if you haven’t anything nice to say , don’t say anything at all .
I do try and not to be goady in my posts . I have from time to time however been quoted , when people will deliberately and not always pleasantly tell you - you are wrong and take great pleasure in it .
A lot of people don’t really get the concept of healthy debate , we can disagree and have different points of view with no need for aggression .

Perhaps it's an age/confidence thing because I just laugh (I'm 54). I couldn't give AF what someone I don't know says that's derisory to me or about me, and why should I? Why would their opinion matter? I was baited last night and I just think it was funny; I had no inclination to explain myself or justify things at all. Don't feel you have to answer everything, even when they're baiting you for NOT answering.

When I was on HB decades ago in my 30's, I had a very different take. I remember repeatedly seeking out a member called 'ageing Grace' because they were worldly-wise and gave such good advice. There were a few actually who had really insightful advice. I would love to use my learned experience to teach others, but sadly I think most have to walk through it to then really comprehend it.

I don’t think I would like Mumsnet to be so strictly moderated. I get annoyed sometimes by another poster hounding me just because they disagree with an opinion I’ve expressed, but try to ignore it. Also I think it’s important when showing vulnerability to remember that not everyone will be kind and supportive.

'You need to give your head a wobble' and 'bore off' are two of my personal least faves.

I haven't been on MN for long but do tend to think a lot of nasties on here are either fakes or men! 😇
Some idiots/hackers get a kick out of insulting/distressing posters just for the sheer hell of it!
I was shocked how hideous some are.

Saying that most posts are positive, informative & welcomed! 💐
Women tend to write from an emotional perspective, men (generally - not all) are harder and more scathing! The tone of a post is a good give-away to that for me, especially if it reflects a man's bad behaviour! 🤷🏼‍♀️
Pinch of salt springs to mind!

I've been on mumsnet for probably 15 plus years. Early on I never posted, just read, but back then it was easy to 'get to know' more prolific posters because I recognised their user names. That made it feel less anonymous and more interesting as I got some sense of who they were. Personally I think it has got worse and there's much less actual discussion and more posters just repeating pretty much what the previous 50 have said.

I rarely start threads and comment under different user names now to keep things more anonymous and I assume many others do too. Also as many threads can become so long, I don't always have the time or patience to keep checking back, so get less "emotionally" involved. So I find it easier overall to ignore negative or abusive reactions. Only time I got really riled was a few years back when someone repeatedly attacked me over a situation I'd used as an example of a friend being unsupportive, by tryng to convince me (very rudely) I had been the unsupportive one. I reported that poster.

Funnily enough, I had an absolute twat hone in on me the other day. Couldn't understand what I was saying so kept angrily posting that I made no sense. Just kept getting angrier and then nasty. Did a quick search on the name after, and turns out it was a man, and he had the same pattern of unkind posting on other threads.

I think some of the comments on MN are far worse than saying f*k off you c*t, they’re condescending, designed to humiliate and bully, and just really, really nasty. I just pity people who write comments like that because it’s clear they’re deeply unhappy in their own lives and don’t have a lot going on. What happy, fulfilled, busy person would ever take the time to write a hateful comment to a stranger on an anonymous forum? The best thing you can do imo is ignore them. If someone’s looking for a fight why give them what they want?

Remember online interactions coming from bots are around 30% of the total. Add to that themes that are planted by opinion groups to create polarisation, and your regular nasties are not as many as you think. I need to remind myself of this every time I get enraged with some threads. It’s so difficult to find genuine stuff now that I think forums like this will end up dying. And tbh they brought it up upon themselves given their resistance to moderate certain things

I got a comment deleted for calling someone simple - the poster was failing to understand a straightforward issue and ultimately looked like some kind of Reform shill. I don’t particularly want that kind of discourse to thrive on MN.

I also got a comment deleted for pointing out that a PP had a Motability car which was almost solely used by her DH for him to commute to his work. This was found just by looking at her post history. Apparently exposing fraudsters and liers is against the spirit of MN.

On first glance, I was the meanie.

There does need to be stricter monitoring imo. I agree OP.

People are gonna say you need a thick skin for social media, or that we are all adults etc, but the truth is there are some of us that are quite vulnerable!

It's not the nasty comments that make me not want to engage with mn. It's the absence of moderators, the blatant AI posts allowed to stand, and the tolerance of vexatious posters (aka trolls).

Some of the Talk categories should be removed. This is a parenting website. If mn wants to set itself up as a politics chat forum and then completely fail to moderate highly sensitive discussions, it's going to attract troublemakers.

It's also wasting people's time because politics concerns and affects all of us, and I get the impression that a lot of mners would like to discuss these issues - which, after all, affect their children - but can't because of the posters with their own agendas.

Mmm I’ve been here a long time under different nns and the early days weren’t all sweetness and light either! Yes, everyone knew each other’s names, but it was cliquey in the extreme. There were however lots of intelligent and humorous women posting and I think the no nonsense blunt style of Mumsnet was established in that era; and, within reason, I would argue is much preferable to hugs, rainbows and bunnies.

There are some very annoying trolls nowadays, out to just purely upset others and victim blame, who do it with little wit or style. And for that reason you have to be brave if you are genuinely seeking advice and that’s sad.

Some topics are notoriously rambunctious such as the royal threads and the dog house, where unfortunately a lot of condescending know-alls reside; the worst of whom have the fervent belief that they are right and no one else can possibly have anything of value to add and therefore must be rounded on! 😆

BUT I don’t think Mumsnet’s value in allowing women’s voices to be heard in the feminism and politics topics should be underestimated! Misogyny being what it is today and getting worse than ever before, there are not many places left where women can speak freely and openly and where women’s issues come first. Long may that continue!

Ditto consumer reviews ; you can rely on getting sound product recommendations here if you ignore the promotional gumph and simply ask; I’m about to buy a hoover or an air fryer, which is the best one? And that is refreshing in this day and age,

I was going to make a similar point to the poster above about moderation being rather indiscriminate at times and if two posters get in to a barney, it’s often the poster who is reported who gets deleted, rather than the one who is being most vituperative and goady. So reassuring to see Mumsnet HQ responding to that point on here. It can’t be an easy site to moderate!

Finally, agree with pp, that once you are older, you simply don’t care so much and you can skim over the bumps a little or know to leave a goady thread behind.

I do think it’s disingenuous though when people say “why are you upset, it’s only strangers on the internet” because of course there are humans behind the key boards who do take things personally and some posters forget that. And we can all have a bad day!

100% agree!!!!

I have started being careful not to get drawn in. Sometimes someone quotes me or tags me with a horrible little passive aggressive comment, often pointing out an error, and my instinct is to respond. I got caught up in a debate with a poster a while back and ended up calling them rude and condescending. As insults go, I reckon that’s pretty restrained, but they reported my comment and it was deleted. I was pretty pissed off because I knew, looking back, that I had been baited by them. Also, some people can dish it out but can’t take it. So now if I start to write a comment biting back, I stop and ask myself if it’s worth my energy and my sanity. Most of the time now I delete before I get to the point of posting and put it out of my mind. At least starting to write the comment can be quite cathartic!

I would suggest to continue reporting the posts.

I think the best thing when dealing with the bullies on here is to follow the advice my mother gave me as a child, which is "don't react." It's so hard not to respond and defend yourself, but really it's better simply to ignore the goady posts. As mum used to say, if they can see they've got you rattled they'll do it all the more. Don't feed the trolls!

Can I just point out, though, that disagreeing with someone - even if it’s heated - is not bullying?

And I strongly disagree that MN shouldn’t have topics like politics. Politics affects us all, and it’s important that people do understand at least the basics of what’s going on in the world, day-to-day. Yes, some posters have an agenda (that’s often clear by the title of their thread(s)!) but that doesn’t mean you can’t put your own views and thoughts forward. Debate and discussion is what helps us all to learn about issues.

If MN was simply about babies and parenting it would be a lot poorer of a site.

I think if the first poster is nasty you get a pile on. But there's is a very heavy lean to picking threads apart and microdisecting and going off a tiny side detail.

I sometimes post about friends as I'm ND so need some prospective. I always get riped to shreds. I just get advice from chatgpt now as although it's geared to tell you what you want to hear, it actually gives you advice on things to try without calling you a freak. Unlike on here.

For the same reason I hold back on some advice even if I work or volunteer in that field as don't want some vitriol. It's always been like this unfortunately. But I especially dislike people picking one side aspect and turning the thread about that. Say you have a 18 year old cat and your asking if you should PTS as it's struggling on your flats stairs. People will ignore the question and vilifying the flat angle.

Exactly, @BIWI,but don't we all have better things to do than scroll 5 pages of trolling to find the 3 posters with a vocabulary bigger than 5-6 trigger words who actually have something to contribute?

Eg I am 50+ and want to speak to 30something mums to find out their views and where they are coming from wrt to still voting Labour and are they happy with the level of political education they have received. Not a journalist, just mum of a teen curious and interested to expand my worldview to help guide my dd. If I start a thread it will get derailed by bots and agenda-holders, no?