FWR

[MarsScarlet]

FYI: I've name changed for this to avoid a pile-on.

This post is about the overwhelming negativity and hostility with the FWR board that new posters and posters with a differing viewpoint face if they attempt to use the board.

There is a persistent group within the board that are, to put it simply, hateful towards others. Despite posting there on and off for more than 4 years, I have never felt welcome, despite not holding any particular extreme views or being abusive to others. Without exception, I am accused of being another poster, or a man, a TRA, or some kind of paid activist. This occurs again and again until I leave a thread in frustration.

I’ve seen this happen to many other new posters. Few return. Why would they? Such an acidic atmosphere doesn’t encourage healthy discussion. I’d just like to discuss women’s rights, but this board makes discussion impossible.

I’m not exactly sure what the answer is, except for @MNHQ to request the board to tone down the rhetoric a bit and back off on any new names they may see on the board. Let people engage with you rather than actively drive them away.

I bloody love the feminism boards and the women who post on them.
I name change often, and don't agree with everything,, and have found those threads to be honest and interesting.

The downside can be when the faux innocent trolls appear (on just about every thread) and then it descends into an argument with them, instead of the subject.
But that happens on every board, just more on the feminism ones as the trolls don't want women to have free discussion.

The downside can be when the faux innocent trolls appear (on just about every thread) and then it descends into an argument with them, instead of the subject.
But that happens on every board, just more on the feminism ones as the trolls don't want women to have free discussion.
Hard agree with this. They've now decended on the Relationship boards. It's so bloody obvious at times.

But just rudely shutting down naive new posters results in them thinking that all GCs are horrid

If you're deciding the personality of everyone who shares a belief, based on a handful of anonymous posters, then that's a kind of lack of reasoning it would help to reconsider.

I try to do the opposite of shut people down - I'm usually interested in how they've drawn their conclusions. But sometimes even asking this in a non-overly feminine coded way is seen as rude. It's the nature of discussion forums unfortunately, and I wish it wasn't!

There are some posters who never answer questions about their views, regardless of how nicely you ask. I see that as frustrating.

But are you a TRA?

These posts-which are, when it comes down to it, concerns about women expressing themselves strongly and arguing their points assertively, hugely predate the current gender debate.

@EmpressaurusKitty

I’m saying that a lot of FWR regulars have been at the coalface on this issue for years & so are likely to be impatient at the idea of intellectual discussions on the topic.

My meaning is more that it's on a different plane from "I don't want MIL to babysit" threads.

@popeydokey

Just realised this might seem unfriendly. I originally wrote "you should know" as in, I should tell you. Then I realised that might sound like I'm saying "you really ought to know by now" so in a rush I changed it to "may know".

Some of us are ND to some degree so posting quickly means I am direct but I never intend to be hostile (if I do, you'll know ). Anyway apologies if that sounded rude.

Not at all - I understood you! Thank you 🙂

@lifeturnsonadime

If you are going on FWR to try to convince women that we should be kind and agree to the erosion of women's rights it is unlikely that, on those boards, many women will agree with you. The same if you are arguing for puberty blockers and a pathway to body modification surgery for children.

I don't say those things - just not exactly always the prevailing view of the board.

I name change regularly and post on FWR. I'm grateful it exists and find it a welcoming and educational experience.

@AwaitingFreedom

When you said discrediting do you mean they have provided scientific links to disapprove what you are thinking? I find they do that a lot and it really hits home how women have been pushed aside. Whether it's pay, marriage or whatever.

They will advance search you to see what you might have said before. That's not against board guidelines, but it is disconcerting when you're not expecting such a militant atmosphere. Aggressively team up and ask questions, over and over, and if one is missed, "she can't answer". Small side details picked on and apart.

So no, they don't often provide scientific links for this reason.

I understand your point, but this group, while small-ish, dominate the board and the conversations. It is impossible to have a thread without them controlling it.

Why do you think these requests are frequent and why would they be saying the ladies are mean, then?

No.

"Why do you think these requests are frequent and why would they be saying the ladies are mean, then?"

Because, despite being siloed, the women posting in FWR haven't stopped discussing the topics that they want to discuss.

Feminism: Chat is there for all your feminist discussion needs, no need to go near the other board if you don't like it. If Feminism: Chat is a ghost town, then post more and more frequently - get it in the Active lists and generate your own community.

I'm pleased it works for you.

For me it's the giving a view that is 1. Insulting and 2. You can't back up, the main one being 'you're all transphobic bigots', that riles up the women here, it does me anyway. In fact I find it infuriating.

The regulars on FWR have done masses of research and speak from lived experience on how spaces should remain single sex regardless of this thing called identity, WHY single sex spaces and sports exist in the first place, that it's not necessarily a trans issue (or else trans men would feature more heavily than they do) but a male issue.

They have statistics, examples and counter argue fiercely because women have fought for years for rights. For someone to come along - usually ploppers- with feeble statements, nothing to back it up other than 'be kind, being trans doesn't make you dangerous' (no but being a man does as a sex class) and little else and then get defensive and surprised when presented with vast evidence to the contrary.

Women and children's safety and rights to privacy and dignity being trampled on are going to illicit strong responses.

Then you have the misogynistic TRA regulars whose sole purpose is to go on FWR to spread their misogyny.

By all means, give a view, just be prepared to back up that view with strong examples if that view has a potential to bring harm to women and girls.

'speak from livid experience '

Sound about right. 😂

What do you think is the "prevailing view of the board" on some specific issue? I think you could give an example without it identifying your other username, and that would help to make what you mean a bit clearer.

Yeah I did chuckle to myself before I realised and corrected it!

I think the problem is that FWR is a place where women truly have free speech (more or less - it used to be policed a bit more than it is now).

In general society, women are punished if they give their real opinion, freely and frankly. Women don't really have free speech, or not most women. Some who've worked hard against the grain and gained certain positions, like prominent journalists (e.g Julie Bindel), do (though also lots of death threats and real risks to their safety, so that free speech isn't without huge cost), but a lot of women e.g. the nurse suspended for calling a man a man, don't. She lost her job / was suspended for free speech. Similar for Rachel Meade, Maya F, lots and lots of women can't speak up for fear of dire consequences.

So some people come on FWR and feel as if someone robustly challenging their point of view is 'negativity' and 'hostility' when really all it is is robust disagreement and women refusing to do female socialisation. Or in other words women not flattering and soothing and saying 'no' I don't agree pretty bluntly rather than the way they're expected to in real life by centering everyone else's feelings first. I personally feel that having your arse handed to you on FWR is a badge of honour that anyone who sticks around will get eventually. I certainly have. It teaches you to argue better and make sure you have your evidence to hand before you do.

Personal attacks, if they really are personal attacks, are already against talk guidelines and can be reported, MN will delete them and the poster will be suspended if they do it too many times. So just report the personal attacks.

And if you want women with more female socialisation, I'd probably go elsewhere. It's very rare the corner of the internet where women can speak freely and bluntly, whereas there are plenty of places they can't. I'd try reddit or Netmums if you don't like FWR.

Because it was a co-ordinated and deliberate attempt to shut women up. (Didn't really work, though).

It's interesting you accuse other posters of 'controlling' that board, OP. Because I found your post and request here seems to be motivated from a bit of an attempt to control. An 'appeal to authority', to ask MNHQ to force posters to be nice.

I am relatively new to FWR (a couple of years lurking and posting, but not super regularly). I would say in the early days of posting it could feel a bit hostile but I think that’s because I was pretty new to thinking about gender identity etc and so was making points or asking theoretical questions that had been done to death by those steeped in the topic for years. Really, it wasn’t actual hostility, but directness on a level I perhaps wasn’t used to, and essentially asking me to think more carefully about stuff. Which was good for me.

I don’t think the atmosphere is generally hostile. I think the women there don’t suffer fools gladly - by fools I don’t mean people who disagree with them, I mean people who haven’t robustly examined their own position and are unable to defend it or critically analyse it.

The discussion is robust, but I have learnt SO much from the wise women there and I think it’s invaluable we have a place like that for really rigorous and unabashed debate on a topic that is often brushed under the carpet.

And if you want women with more female socialisation, I'd probably go elsewhere. It's very rare the corner of the internet where women can speak freely and bluntly, whereas there are plenty of places they can't. I'd try reddit or Netmums if you don't like FWR.

Watch out for a lot more death threats and creepy porn threads on Reddit though.

The blunt speech is important - particularly when it comes to child safeguarding. It's an important space.

It's so sad women talking about safeguarding first and foremost is labelled 'negativity' and 'hostility' and we've seen in wider society how that ends up for children and how the whistleblowers trying to do this and protect children in the real world have been treated.

It would be nice if everyone could become a bit more resilient to those not agreeing with them, listened to alternative views, had robust discussions and focused on things like child safeguarding rather than the 'tone' of what women say.

It would be nice if everyone could become a bit more resilient to those not agreeing with them, listened to alternative views, had robust discussions and focused on things like child safeguarding rather than the 'tone' of what women say.

Quite.