FWR

[MarsScarlet]

FYI: I've name changed for this to avoid a pile-on.

This post is about the overwhelming negativity and hostility with the FWR board that new posters and posters with a differing viewpoint face if they attempt to use the board.

There is a persistent group within the board that are, to put it simply, hateful towards others. Despite posting there on and off for more than 4 years, I have never felt welcome, despite not holding any particular extreme views or being abusive to others. Without exception, I am accused of being another poster, or a man, a TRA, or some kind of paid activist. This occurs again and again until I leave a thread in frustration.

I’ve seen this happen to many other new posters. Few return. Why would they? Such an acidic atmosphere doesn’t encourage healthy discussion. I’d just like to discuss women’s rights, but this board makes discussion impossible.

I’m not exactly sure what the answer is, except for @MNHQ to request the board to tone down the rhetoric a bit and back off on any new names they may see on the board. Let people engage with you rather than actively drive them away.

@Helleofabore

Really? Now you are getting personal.

It is? You often tell other posters how much lived experience posters on FWR have, and how much knowledge they have accrued. Is that incorrect?

But you were saying someone had posted an example of what you were talking about - is that correct? If so, please could you quote it?
I genuinely find it really hard to follow discussion when it's that vague.

I think if you can't make a specific claim 'xyz said these words, which are rude' then you will definitely struggle in debate on FWR. Just try it! Otherwise we're trying to guess what you're thinking.

You find it an issue that posters on FWR have knowledge and direct experience to back up their opinions and posts? Why?

And you feel that on a thread where you are discussing hostility, you feel it is appropriate to name posters while you have name changed?

It feels like this thread has become a demonstration of ‘the issue’.

OP has posted quite a vague complaint or comment about FWR. People have asked questions, or made an assumption about what OP means and responded to that. OP feels like there’s a pile on and seems to now be suggesting there’s a wave of hostile or unpleasant posters with the ‘here they are’ comment.

I can see why OP might feel like there’s a pile on, but people are just trying to drill down into what you say the issue is and what you want us to do differently.

A whole life's worth of experience I'd have thought...

And yes, TBH, FWR posters have been through the wars a bit, and tend to cut straight to the point (whilst, since they have historically been over-policed, being extremely careful about which words they use)

😂

And what if we don't want to be 'feminine'? What if we find the suggestion we should spend our energy being 'feminine' rather than - say - safeguarding children. 'hostile' and 'offensive'?

'Sensitivities' around language and speech were - IN MY OPINION - what were weaponised to allow the torture and rape of children by grooming gangs for years. So I'm over doing that, to be honest. Safeguarding requires unvarnished honesty and prioritising of children's safety over adult feelings. For too long it's been the other way around, and it is still.

And what if we're secretly all men just ridiculously and improbably enlightened ones that care about women's rights? If we're men can we avoid having to tie ourselves in pretzels to be feminine?

After all, this is a chat forum. It's not like real life where you can see someone's sex. We're probably all just men if we're speaking like men, right?

@Helleofabore

Seems so. Looks like a thread just to name and shame posters that the OP doesn't like or agree with.

I never said I didn't like you, for goodness' sake. I brought you up as a poster that also brings up 'experience.' I haven't brought up any other names.

This is exactly what I was meaning. Pile-ons.

Right, so you'd like it in the rules that people aren't allowed to mention their experience or knowledge? How will that work?

And that only a certain number of people can ask questions at once, despite this being a freely available, public board?

I really think that you are the one being unreasonable here - I just can't see how you could make your suggestions work.

You have named me on a thread where you are discussing hostility. Do you think that was an appropriate thing to do and that I, and others, might not see that as a demonstration of hostility?

@Helleofabore

You find it an issue that posters on FWR have knowledge and direct experience to back up their opinions and posts? Why?

Not at all. That's great. I only find it an issue when they use it to drive other posters away.

Feminism is about challenging/ disputing/ rejecting the gender stereotypes that our patriarchal society imposes on us.

I think what you might actually be finding on FWR is intelligence and a rejection of certain female stereotypes. I've been challenged before for sarcasm and for not providing sources and sometimes feel a bit immature in comparison to other posters. But I've also received deep empathy for issues such as sexual assault, traumatic illness and non conforming children. Issues which I've received vile misogynist and homophobic abuse for on platforms such as twitter and Facebook.

I think it's unfair to ask women to behave MORE like the feminine stereotype on FWR. It is the only freely accessible place which women can meet to speak freely without deferring to men. If you want women to be more polite / less challenging then you quite literally have the whole of the rest of the internet and the world to cater for that desire.
Edit to add I also have multiple names, frequently add new ones and post quite differently depending on whether I'm at work, in a hurry etc

I'm really struggling to understand how someone sharing their experience drives other people (who also have experience) away from a board.

But you're interpreting someone saying they FEEL like you don't like them as a pile on. But that poster feels your posts are hostile as they indicate you're behaving as if you don't like certain posters (I'd concur, I find it fairly hostile to be told to be more 'feminine' on a women's rights board).

How does MN decide whose reality trumps the other? Maybe just let both stand since I don't see anything truly personal or offensive in either to be honest.

I think this falls in the 'you need to accept you can't impose your worldview on others' life lesson, no?

I agree. It's actually a weird feeling when loads of people are posting "well what then?" posts directed only at you. I did understand it can feel hostile, even if every individual is posting genuinely.

I think part of the "being robust" is understanding that this isn't personal, people want to defend themselves or ask for clarity on what's being claimed. I don't think that's unreasonable. But it's sometimes the sheer number rather than any particular post is what causes the "feeling". Just deal with each post on its own basis. There is likely to be something of value somewhere. Think about what you are contributing.

(And please don't paraphrase unless it's in such a way that the person being paraphrased would agree with! That's debate 101!)

Having lived experience and saying so is still not the same as saying 'we know everything and our lived experience means you shouldn't bother giving any opinion' though, is it?

Quite a negative, nasty take. What was the point of you starting this thread again? Highlighting how hostile it is (your perception)?

Or is the issue that some posters come into threads and declare that we have no idea about people with transgender identities and no experience and that our opinions are based on hate, and you have interpreted a rebuttal of that as being intended to drive other posters away.

Whereas, it could have been a response to a post stating that no one on the thread knows what they are talking about and it is all just bigotry.

It's important to remember that the accusations of hostility and "pile ons" predate the trans debate by many years. Does anyone remember, for example, Dittany? My issue with FWR if I have one is that it seems almost completely devoted to trans issues- and there are other important things we should be talking about.

When it's in the manner of "we know better than you".

I think we are indeed getting a live demonstration.

No. I've also experienced the same as OP and others. Trying to suggest that posters are unable to perceive the difference between intelligence beyond their ken and outright insults says it all.

No one cares if you aren't polite. Just don't be as horrendously rude and jeering as I have witnessed

How would someone sharing their knowledge and direct experience drive someone away from a board?

But that's exactly what you're doing, as I see it. You've literally told us all to be more feminine.

And do you think that could be skewed by your own personal interpretation?

Have you ever asked me to clarify what my post was meant to be about to see if you, personally, misunderstood?

Yet more accusations without any examples.

As an aside, I am now convinced you're all men because you're blunt and I'm a man. I'm looking forward to getting better pay.