MN needs a closer watch of FWR

[BodegaSushi]

There is a concerning growth of posts with racist undertones cropping up on these boards, all under the guise of being proudly 'anti-woke'.

Apparently diversity is 'woke' and worthy of derision.

This is the thread I'm referring to here.

Disney went woke now they're going broke www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4836570-disney-went-woke-now-theyre-going-broke

Mumsnet needs to looks at why that board draws such types of posts, and why posters feel so comfortable openly airing their racism.

Agreed! And also gay/lesbian rights being dragged into the trans conversation so that ‘pride’ is demonised constantly

I now avoid anything about "woke" and don't use the term. FWR has been full of smart women (including gay women) for years while largely avoiding the racism that seeps into other parts of MN - there's definitely an influx of posters who aren't really clear on the specific FWR issues.

I think report racism in posts where you see it. This includes people saying things like "trans women are a type of woman just like black women" etc.

The homophobia tends to come from TRAs so harder to report, but you still can.

Oh absolutely. I'm pressed for time atm so focused on this one issue but there was a thread where I reported loads of comments that were just openly homophobic. Not transphobic. Homophobic.

And the racism was rampant on the Annecy thread too. The worst comments were deleted.

But that's the thing, the comments or threads get pulled, then they gaslight and say 'but WHERE are these so-called comments??' Like they didn't make them themselves.

Still, there is a deep issue with a lot of the posters who flock to that board.

I'm not sure about the TRAs, I will look out more, I tend to avoid those posts when I can.

I'm GC but don't align with so many of the views on the FWR boards.

And one recent homophobic comment I remember recently was a poster saying that it was 'unnatural' for a child to be intentionally brought into a world without a mother and father.

And posts on a thread where a woman was desperate for advice after her wife (who carried their child) left her and was refusing access were HATEFUL. Along the lines of 'well that's too bad, she's NOT YOURS'.

Disgusting.

I think that the anti surrogacy posts are mostly more nuanced than that. It is a feminist position that surrogacy is harmful to women and the babies conceived of surrogacy, and treats women's bodies and the baby as a commodity. The fact that this impacts the 'rights' of homosexual couples to have children is not homophobic as it is consistent with feelings about all surrogacy but I don't think I saw the posts that you refer to. Most people who are anti surrogacy, like me, feel the same whatever the sexuality or reasoning behind the intended parents wish to use a surrogate. If someone posted that surrogacy is fine except where the IPs are homosexual then that would be homophobic, but I haven't seen that.

I commented on that thread and was pleased to see most posters critical of the posts premise, so I’m not sure about the issue just because someone posted this very shallow take. The response is the key.

I saw that thread and the post was called out within the first 2 posts. I'm not sure that means that there is more supervision needed. Users were self moderating by disagreeing and pointing out the racism.

That board is just full of Twitter warriors these days. Petty nonsense. It's a shame! There used to be serious feminist debate happening, but I guess MNHQ got rid of most of those posters and now it's just these NatCon types who seem obsessed with pop culture and adverts and so on. I look in from time to time but generally go away depressed.

They sound basically identical to their opponents to me.

None of the comments I posted are a reference to surrogacy.

In fact, the 'unnatural' comment I'm sure was on the same post I referenced on the women who's wife (who carried their child) was withholding contact.

There were also lots of personal questions asked like 'where is the child's father' and insinuations that it's wrong for 2 women to raise a child.

They sound basically identical to their opponents to me.

Bingo.

Apologies but the 'unnatural to knowingly bring a child into the world without a mother or father' comment did seem to be referencing surrogacy.

Was the homophobia you referred to not called out? I would be very surprised if it wasn't, the Disney thread you reference has many posters pointing out the racism and homophobia of the OP.

Apologies but the 'unnatural to knowingly bring a child into the world without a mother or father' comment did seem to be referencing surrogacy.

Why? In surrogacy there is a father? It's more about a child being taken from their birth mother.

And no actually, lots of people were chiming in with their unhelpful comments, kicking the OP when she was down. I've already given an example in my comment.

I hear you, and I remember that ignorant post (now deleted) - the Annecy thread was in 'in the news', though, not FWR (https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/in_the_news/4823326-4-young-children-stabbed-in-annecy), so I don't think this is a problem limited to one topic.

I read the Disney thread in FWR, and while the OP was absolutely obnoxious, I was heartened by the fact that most (not all, but most) of the subsequent posts were vehemently calling them out.

Unfortunately, there are unpleasant posters in many parts of this site - threads about Travellers in AIBU or Chat always descend into horrible prejudice, for example, and I've seen some nasty stuff in the Royal Family section, too... I do report racist and homophobic posts that I see, and encourage others to do so, too (in case readers don't know, MNHQ only post-moderate threads, so they need to be made aware).

TLDR: I don't think it's specific to any one topic area, to be honest. Arseholes gonna arsehole, etc, whatever their views on specific areas of politics.

I agree OP.

there’s been a spate of posters - probably just one name changing a lot - posting goady articles almost without comment, and lots are just homophobic or racist.

Right, someone posts an article, typically from something most of the posters piling on would never read or encounter, which they often explicitly acknowledge. Then there's a Two Minutes Hate expression in comment after comment, down with this sort of thing etc etc. Then move on to another post with another article.

For years we've known that outrage is generated by inflammatory articles being tossed into the "opposing" side and then circulated intensely amongst that group. Often the "source" side barely sees the article. Thinking of the work of Molly Crockett here from 5-10 years ago. It's interesting actually in that MN has no algorithm, but the dynamic still seems to operate.

I don't read any of the fwr threads (I've got the entire topic hidden to save my blood pressure), but all I can suggest is that whenever anyone spots anything, report it as soon as possible. There are a heck of a lot more MNetters than there are mods, so people reporting things really does help.

I think using woke as a pejorative should be banned on MN just as Karen is. That would reduce their subtle racist vocabulary and rhetoric. So they can come right out and say what they hate, which is seeing black faces in a film about mythical creatures, etc.

There is at least one poster who namechanges a lot to post goady articles and threads designed to generate froth about various topics. They have a very distinctive style.

The change in the FWR board and its predecessor over the last decade or so does concern me. I have noticed it's changed from what was a largely intelligent and reasoned discussion board into what frankly now appears to be an anti-LGBT board. The idea that it's to discuss the issues of transgender ideology only no longer seems to apply. And now as you say, there is an emerging trend for anything that's "woke" to be turned on too. There have been a handful of threads with troubling racist undertones and I imagine they will increase.

Well said

The discussion forum called 'sex and gender', where all threads discussing the impact of 'trans rights' on women and girls, was specifically created to hive off general discussions about the impact of 'trans rights' on women and girls out of the way of everything else, and you all of a sudden notice that the discussion on the board is about 'trans rights' and their impact on women and girls?

I'd give you a slow hand clap but really can't be arsed.

The Feminist forum on MN is moderated by men who say they are women, 24/7 pet.

It even has it's own police officer who tells us that our experiences didn't happen and what we see is not what we saw.

Anything resembling 'transphobia' is mass reported and all the women are watched for transgressions to try and get them banned.

I think you need to give yourself that slow clap, since you've failed to read my post.

As my post said, I've noticed that the forum is now anti-LGBT. Not just T.

What have you noticed that makes you think that?

The rampant anti-Pride threads at the moment?

The railing against anything to do with homosexuality being included in the school curriculum?

The threads denigrating those who call themselves asexual?

The threads calling drag queens freaks and pervs?

None of this ringing a bell for you?

The anti asexual threads over the past months have been quite frankly bizarre.