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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Autism and MNHQ moderation

326 replies

HypocrisyHere · 04/01/2022 10:24

I am starting this thread as suggested by @HebeMumsnet following the other thread I started last week

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4439585-MN-and-their-approach-to-autism?pg=1

The point was the lack of consistency in moderation (the screenshots contained two threads in my watchlist - one deleted due to its title, the other - the “support” thread - allowed to stand despite what many to believe to be a far, far more offensive title).

From the linked above thread you will see many autistic people who feel that MNHQ allow many posts which are based on outdated, inaccurate and harmful stereotypes of autistic people. Further, on the support thread, the majority of posters have self-diagnosed Their partners and many of us view this as extremely offensive as again, this self diagnosis is based on these outdated stereotypes (please note an individual self-diagnosing themselves is a totally different issue and though an important discussion, not one I intended to raise on my original thread). I have summarised my thoughts on that thread in my post I made on 31/12/21 at 12:09.

I also made it clear from my opening post that I think parents of autistic children also need a space to seek support (hence me questioning why first thread was deleted). I know that many parents need this. But you will also see that many of these parents often accuse autistic adults without learning difficulties of trying to advocate for their children. I can state that in my case this is absolutely untrue and I did not see any others in the thread doing so. But I want to be clear that I absolutely support the need for this but it is not fair for these parents to refer to our autism as “mild” which they frequently do. This is a very outdated term which many of us find very offensive as it is based in a neurotypical person’s view of us and not on our actual “lived experience”. Spending the majority of your school years as an outcast and a person who can be mocked is not a mild experience for a child.

On the linked thread you will also see that we have been subjected to a whole load of ableist comments - that there’s something wrong with is, that we need to realise how negatively we impact people, that we are selfish for wanting to centre the discussion on us etc. this highlights the deep misunderstanding, ignorance and downright prejudice many people have towards us.

I think many of us would welcome a productive dialogue with MNHQ where we could address these issues as well as discussing the harm threads about autistic people cause (which includes the support thread). Many of us have acknowledged that we understand our behaviours may seem “difficult” but for us many, many neurotypical behaviours, which we need to accommodate every day, are difficult for us. This is a two-way street and we won’t make progress until BOTH “sides” respect each other.

One final clarification. I am in no way attempting to speak for all autistic people here. I started the thread sharing my own opinion and many people supported me (when I last looked 65% supported me). What I have written here are my own feelings on the subject.

Thank you for asking me to post here and I very much hope we can make progress on this issue and that MN (and society in general) can become a place where autism is understood and accepted.

OP posts:
5zeds · 07/01/2022 10:16

So, what changes to the moderation would improve things for all posters?

Is the problem with
-0- the speed of response,
-0- the response itself or
-0- that there isn’t any response at all?

-0- How big is the problem (as in how many posts are causing issues)?

-0- what is the impact on users both autistic and neurotypical?

Innocenta · 07/01/2022 10:29

Disagreement with you is not necessarily an attack, @HypocrisyHere - I am guessing you'd include me as one of the people you don't want on the thread / think shouldn't be participating. But I've given multiple examples of points where I completely agree with you and would like to see the changes that you propose implemented by MN.

There are other areas where I disagree, yes. But it's absolutely possible for someone to have a strong interest in ableism on MN (and thus very genuine, non malicious reasons to participate), and feel differently to you. In my case, that difference isn't even as big as you may think - a lot of the things you'd like to see changed, I'd also like to see changed. Not all. But I'm far from being here to 'attack' you.

HerRoyalHappiness · 07/01/2022 10:33

The problem is ableist posts and threads are pedt to stand, MNHQ don't delete posts that perpetuate myths and stereotypes about autism which further causes distress and upset to those of us with autism.
When autistic posters are saying "this is harmful, its wrong and we find it offensive" something should be done about it.

Innocenta · 07/01/2022 10:33

I think that is the general approach taken to the BlackMumsnetters section

Would you want an autistics' subforum? I think MN might (?) say they feel that is covered by 'Mumsnetters with SN' - which does have an ongoing neurodiversity support thread - but I think you could very reasonably argue that 'special needs' is a largely outdated term and that it therefore isn't easy to find.

Ovenaffray · 07/01/2022 10:41

I haven’t attacked anyone and I am incredibly upset by the inference that I have.

5zeds · 07/01/2022 10:42

I think it’s important to draw a line between something being harmful/wrong and something being offensive .

Ovenaffray · 07/01/2022 10:47

I’m going to try to phrase this in as even a way as I can.

I think there are issues in general with support threads. They can become problematic in that if you are the negative side of the thread it’s offensive. I’m thinking, for example, to use examples not related to autism, of the trans widows threads.

Personally, I find some of the casual racism on here very difficult and I don’t always feel that mumsnet get the line right. Similarly with some of the ableist posts aimed at those who are neurodiverse in whatever way, or as another example the disabled parking threads I don’t feel mumsnet always understand fully the position of the minority in each case and how it contributes to an unwelcoming atmosphere.

But trying to infer that people are attacking when they’re not diagnosed autistic and don’t 100% agree isn’t fair either.

flippertyop · 07/01/2022 11:21

Why is responses from those with autism the only relevant espouse here? The thread you describe as being offensive is for people who are NT who need support. Why then can they not comment on why that thread is needed. It's absolutely wrong to cut down support threads because you don't agree with them. Living with someone ND can be hard and MN is there to give support. The thread is not relevant to you so scroll on

Innocenta · 07/01/2022 11:29

@flippertyop In fairness, though, OP isn't trying to remove support threads. It's understandable for OP to be annoyed and upset when being accused of trying to get those threads totally cancelled and removed - if you look at their posts, it's never been about that.

5zeds · 07/01/2022 11:58

Is the problem with the support thread the use of the term “Aspergers” or that they want to discuss the difficulties around living with Aspergic partners if you aren’t? I personally am not offended by either, but as I said I haven’t read the support thread. Surely if people are being awful on that thread you hide it, scroll past or report the posts of concern?

Ovenaffray · 07/01/2022 12:05

I think the problem @5zeds is that the title is offensive and that posts which the op finds problematic are not always deleted and she feels this is ableist. (Apologies if I’ve got this wrong @HypocrisyHere feel free to correct me if I have).

Ovenaffray · 07/01/2022 12:06

Sorry - the op feels that the title is offensive.

5zeds · 07/01/2022 12:11

Yes but is it offensive to @HypocrisyHere (and others?) because it identifies that a neurotypical-neurodiverse couple might have particular difficulties in their relationship that aren’t experienced in the same way as in a all neurodiverse or all neurotypical relationship, or that the partners are described as aspergic rather than autistic?

PeaceONoeuf · 07/01/2022 12:28

Maybe we could even it up and start a ‘coping with being married to a NT thread?’ - tbh there’s loads of stuff the supposedly ‘normal’ people do that is really weird or boring or upsetting. 😂

kmblark · 07/01/2022 12:31

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Innocenta · 07/01/2022 12:35

@kmblark If it's not acceptable to cite what people have said elsewhere with specifics, then this sort of carping should have no place in the thread either.

@MNHQ - some consistency please?

5zeds · 07/01/2022 15:20

@kmblark WTF. Angry I’ve been posting on MN for very many years and I have never posted anything of the sort. Why would you say such a thing?

Disgusting and frankly incomprehensible nonsense.

PeaceONoeuf · 08/01/2022 10:50

Do you know what? I’ve just been on a different thread and am beginning to see the need for this.

BitcherOfBlakiven · 08/01/2022 10:57

@PeaceONoeuf

Do you know what? I’ve just been on a different thread and am beginning to see the need for this.
Once you see it, you can’t unsee it Sad
PeaceONoeuf · 08/01/2022 10:59

It’s pretty depressing. Maybe we could have a support thread somewhere like the other place? Because it’s nice to share experiences.

meteoric · 08/01/2022 11:24

It's bonkers to me that this thread has been going on for so long without a resolution.

I can't see why MNHQ couldn't rename the Mumsnetters with SN section to make it more findable. Presumably that would also improve SEO too.

Seems pretty simple. 🤷‍♀️

Thoosa · 08/01/2022 13:52

It is a long echoing silence, isn’t it?

BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation · 08/01/2022 17:47

Can I start a thread in SN regarding difficulties autistic posters face when trying to discuss our experiences here?

ENoeuf · 08/01/2022 17:51

Isn’t that what this thread is?

BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation · 08/01/2022 17:57

I mean if we're supposed to post a support thread in our own area - which we're not going to get so SN will have to do - so that ppl won't come along and tell us we're doing it wrong.