How to discuss BBC 100 women list?

[BernardBlackMissesLangCleg]

Hello

I've seen two threads attempting to discuss this list deleted today. Could you possibly give guidance about how the feminist issue of men taking the place of women in a list of women can be discussed on the feminism board without the thread being deleted?

@BoreOfWhabylon

Hyperbole.

err, really?

you don't think any women were censored today?

How can you delete posts regarding natal sex? It's a biological fact. Transwomen are not female whatever they change their birth certificate to. They can change gender but they can't change sex. That is a fact. How can you delete facts?

And they've just deleted the thread my hyperbolic post was intended for. Jesus. This place these days

That is a fact. How can you delete facts? It starts with having to say 'transwomen' - no other variation on the same theme will do

Then they want 'women', cos woman isn't sex based. It's built on gender, but not stereotypes, no. It's the feelz of woman.

Then they were born women, wrongly assigned at birth, always woman, not female (yet). So just as much a woman as any other.

Then add a pinch of smoke and mirrors, lots of shouting about being hurted, lots of targetted aggression, threats to organisations (like MN) and individual,s (we all know who they are) and a new woman is born.

Trans women and cis women - notice the order is important

Women and non trans women

Cervix havers and women

We have seen so many variations on that theme.

We just need to know our place and all would be well with the world. You know this is true. So stop fighting it. TERF BIGOT etc etc

Tiresome!

@Alekto

And they've just deleted the thread my hyperbolic post was intended for. Jesus. This place these days

Which wasn't a TAAT. It was a thread about the moderation of various threads.

I've been censored today for stating facts. Im allowed to be angry about that.

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

I’ve always been very puzzled by the requirement that women mind their language to make sure men feel welcome on a feminism board

Feels a bit…..sexist, no?

Mired in the expectation that ‘ladies’ are ‘nice’

👏

@MatildaIThink

Do you censor Jews for saying that Jesus was not the messiah?

What about Brian?

MNHQ today:

• delete a thread about the massacre of 14 women and one memorialising those women and a key speaker at their memorial who likes posting pictures of guns on social media

• repeatedly delete BBC 100 women threads, a list of 97 women, 50 of whom are Afghan and cannot possibly identify out of their oppression

• say that posts (by one poster - 0PhthaloBlue0 ) linking to 'breast binding', 'hormones' and puberty blockers, fall under 'support and advice' and allow a thread supporting a vulnerable mother of a lesbian daughter to derail.

At least one of the posts, by 0PhthaloBlue0, breaks the law.
This thread gives advice on how to report it
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4420827-Promoting-puberty-blockers-is-an-offence

and the vulnerable mother has now confirmed she's suicidal and calling the samaritans.

@MNHQ @Justine @LilyMumsnet @HopeMumsnet @MichaelMumsnet how could you?

@ButtonSister

Would it work if we referred to adult human females and males?

Or penis people and vagina people?

Then add a pinch of smoke and mirrors, lots of shouting about being hurted, lots of targetted aggression, threats to organisations (like MN) and individual,s (we all know who they are) and a new woman is born.

Don't forget the lippy and heels.

Please can the Mumsnet admin team review the moderation policy on the discussions around women's rights as related to sex and gender.

This is a vast site and gender critical feminists are herded into one small subforum when we talk about these issues. And even in that one "feminist" place on this one site with "Mum" in its name our language is policed to the point where we cannot speak clearly about matters that deeply affect us and all women and girls.

Please, #nodebate's grip on the BBC and other media outlets is failing. In light of Nolan's Stonewall podcasts, the treatment of Kathleen Stock, and other GC women, the release of Material Girls, Trans and Feminism for Women.

Surely all of that counts for something?

Are you going to wait until the damage to women and girls of this ideology is even harder to ignore? Did you see that Swedish documentary about the consequences of puberty blockers? The damage being caused to gender non-conforming children and teens is already a scandal. Pretending reality and physical biology don't exist is not kind to anyone.

Why can we not discuss the problems openly of male sexed people usurping female sexed people on the sex and gender subforum of the feminist part of a site for women? Can't we have that crumb?

Why do we need to centre male born people in a female space?

If Mumsnet was instead a site specifically for disabled women, with an amputee rights forum, would you expect disabled women posting their to have to be careful how they talked about their needs and experiences as female amputees incase they inadvertently excluded abled bodied women who wanted a healthy limb removed because it didn't feel like theirs?

People with xenomelia should be treated with compassion after all, it must be a very distressing condition.

Or would you acknowledge that whilst people with that distressing condition do need a support group, that a forum for people who had no choice but to be amputees, where they discuss their pain and experiences and how society can adapt to better meet their needs, is not the correct group. That the amputees shouldn't be made to be support humans or validation centers for the able bodied jealous of their unchosen suffering?

Come on, Mumsnet, I know it is a contentious issue, but I think the guidelines need reviewing.

I sincerely hope that should my comment be deleted it it should be for the homonym typo of their instead of there*

@Fukuraptor

Please can the Mumsnet admin team review the moderation policy on the discussions around women's rights as related to sex and gender.

This is a vast site and gender critical feminists are herded into one small subforum when we talk about these issues. And even in that one "feminist" place on this one site with "Mum" in its name our language is policed to the point where we cannot speak clearly about matters that deeply affect us and all women and girls.

Please, #nodebate's grip on the BBC and other media outlets is failing. In light of Nolan's Stonewall podcasts, the treatment of Kathleen Stock, and other GC women, the release of Material Girls, Trans and Feminism for Women.

Surely all of that counts for something?

Are you going to wait until the damage to women and girls of this ideology is even harder to ignore? Did you see that Swedish documentary about the consequences of puberty blockers? The damage being caused to gender non-conforming children and teens is already a scandal. Pretending reality and physical biology don't exist is not kind to anyone.

Why can we not discuss the problems openly of male sexed people usurping female sexed people on the sex and gender subforum of the feminist part of a site for women? Can't we have that crumb?

Why do we need to centre male born people in a female space?

If Mumsnet was instead a site specifically for disabled women, with an amputee rights forum, would you expect disabled women posting their to have to be careful how they talked about their needs and experiences as female amputees incase they inadvertently excluded abled bodied women who wanted a healthy limb removed because it didn't feel like theirs?

People with xenomelia should be treated with compassion after all, it must be a very distressing condition.

Or would you acknowledge that whilst people with that distressing condition do need a support group, that a forum for people who had no choice but to be amputees, where they discuss their pain and experiences and how society can adapt to better meet their needs, is not the correct group. That the amputees shouldn't be made to be support humans or validation centers for the able bodied jealous of their unchosen suffering?

Come on, Mumsnet, I know it is a contentious issue, but I think the guidelines need reviewing.

Excellent post Fukru

A TAAT about the deleted École Polytechnique thread has just been taken down but the deletion message says that MNHQ will be looking at the deleted thread.

Has one of their advertisers suddenly started to turn the screws, I wonder.

I can imagine it becoming quite specific if the advertiser has been captured.

I remember the Coop threatening to pull advertising from the Spectator because of something they wrote. And Andrew Neils response.

No need to bother, Co-op. As of today you are henceforth banned from advertising in The Spectator, in perpetuity. We will not have companies like yours use their financial might to try to influence our editorial content, which is entirely a matter for the editor.

Realising that they were just about to lose a major source of advertising for ever, whilst looking bad, the Coop suddenly realised that it had been an intern who had threatened to pull the advertising, and they would be given a stern talking to.

The reason I wonder is that I cannot imagine what HQ stands to gain from these deletions. They're not pleasing anyone on their own site. And they're going against the tide of public opinion.

The reason I wonder is that I cannot imagine what HQ stands to gain from these deletions. They're not pleasing anyone on their own site. And they're going against the tide of public opinion.

MN aren't concerned with pleasing their user base; they are concerned, however, with revenue.

Datun
the Coop suddenly realised that it had been an intern who had threatened to pull the advertising, and they would be given a stern talking to.

It's never ever the intern.

The big companies have a script. They train the 1st line employees with 1 basic rule stick to the script and if it's not in the script refer "it" to senior management.

Talking BS about pulling advertising is not in the script so it was not ever going to be a junior member of staff that tweeted.
The mistake was that other companies had rolled over at the threats.

Now if I remember correctly it was the same day or just after the Charlie Hebdo anniversary so the timing would have been a PR nightmare.

Andrew Neils response was very on point about abuse by financial control.

It left the Coop in a position they did not think would or could happen, where their action was clearly wrong.

Their mistake

@SolasAnla

Datun the Coop suddenly realised that it had been an intern who had threatened to pull the advertising, and they would be given a stern talking to.

It's never ever the intern.

The big companies have a script. They train the 1st line employees with 1 basic rule stick to the script and if it's not in the script refer "it" to senior management.

Talking BS about pulling advertising is not in the script so it was not ever going to be a junior member of staff that tweeted.
The mistake was that other companies had rolled over at the threats.

Now if I remember correctly it was the same day or just after the Charlie Hebdo anniversary so the timing would have been a PR nightmare.

Andrew Neils response was very on point about abuse by financial control.

It left the Coop in a position they did not think would or could happen, where their action was clearly wrong.

Yes I should probably have put the bit about the intern in quotes. I don't think anyone believed it really was an intern.

@AlfonsoTheUnrepentant

The reason I wonder is that I cannot imagine what HQ stands to gain from these deletions. They're not pleasing anyone on their own site. And they're going against the tide of public opinion.

MN aren't concerned with pleasing their user base; they are concerned, however, with revenue.

Yes I'm sure it's revenue. But the tide has turned. And censoring women for talking about their rights is now being negatively portrayed in the media. Advertises, just like anyone else, should be able to see that.

The École Polytechnique thread has been reviewed and reinstated.

@MatildaIThink

Do you censor Jews for saying that Jesus was not the messiah?

What about Brian?

He's a very naughty human young male!

@ErrolTheDragon

The École Polytechnique thread has been reviewed and reinstated.

That is wonderful. Thank you, @MNHQ!