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Original poster

How to discuss BBC 100 women list?

9 replies

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 07/12/2021 07:53

Hello

I've seen two threads attempting to discuss this list deleted today. Could you possibly give guidance about how the feminist issue of men taking the place of women in a list of women can be discussed on the feminism board without the thread being deleted?

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MNHQ

MichaelMumsnet · 07/12/2021 08:45

Hi all, we took a couple of threads down earlier - one for breaking talk guidelines and the other because it was a thread about a deleted thread.

Regarding the modding of the first thread - it was the title that broke guidelines. It's mentioned in the deletion message:
'We've taken this thread down because the title doesn't meet the standards of civil debate outlined in our Talk guidelines'.

Here's the relevant section:
We don’t wish to prevent anyone from asserting as part of their gender critical position that transwomen are born male, and as ever, there is room for mods to exercise their individual judgment. But we think trans people will feel unwelcome if users habitually use a collective term which defines them by an aspect of their identity that they have explicitly rejected, so we’ll usually delete collective terms for trans people which centre on natal sex.

MNHQ

MichaelMumsnet · 07/12/2021 09:13

@IntemperateSpirits we'd use this section of the guidelines:

We'll continue to make decisions on a case-by-case basis, taking tone and context into account. We'd be unlikely to delete if it's said in the context of a civil discussion of biology.

If it’s used on principle rather than to express a specific point, we’d likely delete it on the basis that it undermines civil debate^.

MNHQ

MichaelMumsnet · 07/12/2021 09:14

[quote Cuck00soup]@MichaelMumsnet when these situations arise, could you contact the OP and adjust the thread title perhaps?

Or it looks like a valid conversation is being prevented. [/quote]
Sure, that's also an option.

MNHQ

MichaelMumsnet · 07/12/2021 09:31

@MangoBiscuit Yes, we look at the use of this type of term in context - but if someone is being goady/uncivil then we'd delete.

@TheOccupier Our guidelines have been in place since June 2018. We're convinced that it's possible to host discussions around sex and gender within the terms of civil debate.

MNHQ

MichaelMumsnet · 07/12/2021 09:33

@AnkleDeep

I eagerly anticipate the civil debate rule to apply across the site.

I suggest HQ begins by looking at posts aimed at stepmothers. Which are often very uncivil and verging on abusive.

Or does this rule only apply when discussing trans issues? Clarity on this would be appreciated.

Our rules on civil debate apply across the site. Here's a link to the Talk guidelines. As always, if you think a post or poster is breaking the guidelines then please report. We're always fine to take a look.
MNHQ

MichaelMumsnet · 07/12/2021 10:45

Our intention is to create a space for civil and constructive conversation - the guidelines outline our moderation approach.

MNHQ

MichaelMumsnet · 07/12/2021 11:50

In hosting these discussions we want to encourage civil debate - the Maya Forstater case established a protected belief, but is also concerned with the expression of that belief. We feel that our guidelines cover this and that it's possible to make pretty much any gender critical point whilst keeping the conversation constructive and civil.

MNHQ

MichaelMumsnet · 07/12/2021 13:08

@CousinKrispy Yes, we're likely to delete the thread if the title breaks guidelines but we're fine to discuss potentially reinstating threads with title edits - and where the OP can agree on a rewording.

In this case, another thread was started immediately, followed by a third (with a title that didn't break TGs).

MNHQ

MichaelMumsnet · 07/12/2021 14:44

We're committed to hosting discussions around sex and gender on Mumsnet. We ask that people bear in mind the Talk guidelines when posting.

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