How to discuss BBC 100 women list?

[BernardBlackMissesLangCleg]

Hello

I've seen two threads attempting to discuss this list deleted today. Could you possibly give guidance about how the feminist issue of men taking the place of women in a list of women can be discussed on the feminism board without the thread being deleted?

@AnkleDeep

I eagerly anticipate the civil debate rule to apply across the site.

I suggest HQ begins by looking at posts aimed at stepmothers. Which are often very uncivil and verging on abusive.

Or does this rule only apply when discussing trans issues? Clarity on this would be appreciated.

Our rules on civil debate apply across the site. Here's a link to the Talk guidelines. As always, if you think a post or poster is breaking the guidelines then please report. We're always fine to take a look.

If we wish to have this discussion then what are we allowed to say? What can the title be?
I didn't see previous thread so have no idea if I will break talk guidelines.

I’ve always been very puzzled by the requirement that women mind their language to make sure men feel welcome on a feminism board

Feels a bit…..sexist, no?

Mired in the expectation that ‘ladies’ are ‘nice’

So if we can't mention [redacted] then we should I guess refer to the BBC's 97 women list?

But then we'd be accused of erasing the [redacted]?

What a web we weave...

I didn't see the threads and I am struggling: 'if users habitually use a collective term which defines them by an aspect of their identity that they have explicitly rejected, so we’ll usually delete collective terms for trans people which centre on natal sex'

I'm sorry, I'm struggling.

What is this term or terms? Could you point me towards it, I don't want to break rules but it's hard to know what they are if we can't use certain words but don't even know what they are. I'm being sincere here, I have no wish to offend anyone but I need clear definitions.

We can say 'transwoman', presumably? No?

Well said Franca

Ffs

Belief or biological fact???
Why delete for mentioning " natal" sex? Good grief Big Brother...

So what are transwomen then? Because if you aren’t a woman you are a …?

Complete joke. This is not a free country anymore if you're a woman. I'm being prevented from standing up for my rights as a woman. I'm being told to shut up while men take them away. Thanks mumsnet.

There really are two options. You are a woman or a man. And transwoman aren’t woman. And I for one are refusing to go along with the nonsense that they are.

I'm not going to sit by like some good little woman while men tell me what to do.

Being biologically male isn't something to do with "identity" that you can "explicitly reject", it's a scientific reality, and it has a meaning and repercussions.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Being biologically male isn't something to do with "identity" that you can "explicitly reject", it's a scientific reality, and it has a meaning and repercussions.

Not to mumnet it's not. They've constructed an alternate reality and now they're censoring women who won't play along.

When people are discussing how enlightenment values and free speech were reasserted and the religious belief that humans can change sex become the niche, green ink view it deserves to be, don’t forget this.

The debate happened here in spite of MNHQ, not because of them

Which winners are trans women?

I can't keep up. So now 'transwomen' are 'women' and women who identify as women are 'cis women'?! And we've all got to play along with this at the risk of offending, let's face it, men?

I think we're about 3 years away from men deciding that women..... sorry cis women, aren't fully human. I wonder at that point whether we'll be allowed to identify as men? Because they're not allowed to do that in Afghanistan. You have to wonder what the point of mumsnet is if it's not about women.

Our intention is to create a space for civil and constructive conversation - the guidelines outline our moderation approach.

We know , you, MN know, they know. What is the agenda of pretence we are supposed to subscribe to?

Sex is a protected characteristic. I am allowed to talk about sex. I will not be told that that is not allowed. I am a fully grown adult and a citizen in a free country. Sex exists. It can not be changed. End of.

Wow well I think we all know which posters will be delighted.

MNHQ. Can I ask how your talk guidelines have changed since the Maya Forester case? Which ruled that our 'beliefs' are protected? Have you decided to disregard this ruling?