Dear black people of mumsnet

[PatricksRum]

Ideas for a black section on mumsnet.

Should we have separate sections i.e black hair and beauty, black parenting, black cooking or a general black section?

Link to previous

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4018383-black-section-on-mn

the site will need to be heavily managed as I can imagine it will attract a lot of racism

Just like the feminism board that attracts a lot of transphobia? (NOT every poster before anyone starts)
They can do it there.
So why not on a board with black topics?
Seriously, depressing would even have to think of this but the way this and the other thrteads have gone something to think about.

this and other threads meaning the previous ones OP started asking what would be good black topics and if it was a good idea/if anyone would be interested

@BlueThistles why do you disagree?

@Quaagars if that response is for me, I never said it didn’t deserve monitoring. I said it would need heavy monitoring like AIBU needs heavily monitoring for example

@Quaagars if that response is for me, I never said it didn’t deserve monitoring. I said it would need heavy monitoring like AIBU needs heavily monitoring for example]

Wasn't aimed at anyone in particular, just meant if boards can manage it elsewhere when needs strict moderating can't see why MN can't do it for a black board too

@Quaagars of course. The people on here arguing about whether it should exist are pathetic. They won’t use it, so why does it matter if it exists. It won’t be affecting their lives

As a black mum I’m in absolute support. @PatricksRum thread yesterday really upset me with all the questioning and faux concern.

This is long overdue in my opinion and I like the blacknet suggestion. A safe place is definitely needed.

I can’t believe so many people object to it. Some white women never cease to amaze me. How can you be so clued up and passionate about sexism and not apply that same energy and conviction to racism?

Black women marched side by side with white women on Me too and Time’s up and it is utterly disappointing that we don’t get that same level of support on race issues.

I hope MN does the right thing and give us this one thing. Jeez one would think we were asking people to sacrifice their first born children!

Fantastic post, anewdispensation.

Really needed saying.

Some white women never cease to amaze me. How can you be so clued up and passionate about sexism and not apply that same energy and conviction to racism?

Thinking aloud, now sorry - I think some (no, I don't speak for everyone, just myself) just ignorant.
Doesn't mean want to be, or mean to be, just clueless.
It sometimes takes a lot of reading, and looking into yourself to see what problem you exactly have (in my case just ignorance growing up in a very white, very UK non diverse village/area with shall we say non worldly views!)
Maybe uncomfortable for some?
As it does feel that way sometimes when reading up on others experiences

@anewdispensation

As a black mum I’m in absolute support. *@PatricksRum* thread yesterday really upset me with all the questioning and faux concern.

This is long overdue in my opinion and I like the blacknet suggestion. A safe place is definitely needed.

I can’t believe so many people object to it. Some white women never cease to amaze me. How can you be so clued up and passionate about sexism and not apply that same energy and conviction to racism?

Black women marched side by side with white women on Me too and Time’s up and it is utterly disappointing that we don’t get that same level of support on race issues.

I hope MN does the right thing and give us this one thing. Jeez one would think we were asking people to sacrifice their first born children!

I think you'll find that there is huge support on race issues from white women.

We want to do the right thing and we do want to march side by side with black women and support them. Yet we keep being told to fuck off and educate ourselves because apparently we know diddly squat about it and never will because we're white and privileged and all racists.

You can't have it both ways.

I think you'll find that there is huge support on race issues from white women.

OK, yes, there's lots on side (I'm one) but it's absolute garbage to say there's huge support, these threads have showed otherwise.

Yet we keep being told to fuck off and educate ourselves because apparently we know diddly squat about it and never will because we're white and privileged and all racists

Oh as if, I'm white and don't feel that way at all.
If you feel like you're being told to nob off, maybe try and reflect on why that may be?

@Quaagars I do take that point but honestly in 2020 there’s no excuse. Maturity demands that we take responsibility for our own ongoing education otherwise there’s no hope for our children as they pick up so much from us at home.

I have educated myself on the LGBTQ agenda. Coming from a Christian African background and raised in an African nation where homosexuality is criminalised, I had never come across LGBTQ people before I moved to the U.K. but I have never put the burden of my education on them neither have I used my background or ignorance as an excuse.

The mental exhaustion of racism and microagression is real and we don’t have the ability to switch it off. I truly felt a degree of concern for @PatricksRum yesterday as people out and out tried to bully her into submission. This is not a fucking plantation and she’s not beholden to the master’s wish.

All we ask for is kindness, decency, empathy. Don’t call us over sensitive, don’t question our lived experience, we are already trying to survive.

I hope the decent folks of Mumsnet have had their eyes open by this thread and the other one. Now you know better, do better because some of you have black colleagues, black staff and black juniors at work and these same attitudes is what stifles progression at work.

For fuck sake.

When a black woman explains how she feels just shut up and listen.

Why do white people keep commenting trying to defend? It's not about you!!!!

Have some respect.

Learn by listening not speaking.

@PatricksRum

For fuck sake.

When a black woman explains how she feels just shut up and listen.

Why do white people keep commenting trying to defend? It's not about you!!!!

Have some respect.

Learn by listening not speaking.

This was for @elppaenip

I do take that point but honestly in 2020 there’s no excuse. Maturity demands that we take responsibility for our own ongoing education otherwise there’s no hope for our children as they pick up so much from us at home.
I have educated myself on LGBTQ

Totally agree, I've done the same, was trying to answer from myself say 10 years ago.
Would have meant no malice, but can see how it could have come across as "I see no colour!" or whatever.
Now as you say there's no excuse as can read up and that's what I have done, whether it be LGBT or being black (both nothing I'd usually know about) but have read up on both experiences and people really should too

If what we saw on that thread is anything to go by, the support is conditional, qualified and dismal and not fit to be called support.

Like really, there should have been no need for a Debate about it. Like other PPs have said, we have sections where people talk about fucking dogs and cats. As a non pet lover, I swerve those sections but I don’t protest about their existence same as scotnet, lone parents etc.

What happened to @PatricksRum yesterday was disgraceful and some people had the gall to try and tone police her! You can’t offer support only on your terms. We as a society have a collective responsibility to quash racism and exclusion. This is 2020!

If it's like Scotsnet - which did attract a lot of resistance when it was first mooted - then it will be quite quiet and won't need special moderation.
But it seems fairly clear that MN won't ban white posters from posting so if that's a serious need then MN isn't the right host for it. The constant demands concerning identifying ethnicity might prove problematic too.
It's a shame MN doesn't have a poll facility to help them determine desire. Maybe an AIBU poll could cut this down to numbers and stop the ill-tempered discussions. And yy I agree with a PP that an explanation would be needed because new black posters/members might find a black section the opposite of welcoming and create accusations of racism.
As has been suggested on all of these threads, MN would benefit from working with a black organisation on this to ensure it's sensitively handled. All of these threads have had a distinct lack of sensitivity in their handling.

@Phoenix21

I wonder how many of the naysayers were screaming for a Covid section or the Brexit section when they got fed up of seeing such threads in chat/AIBU?

I lurk on many topics that don’t strictly apply to me because I’m interested but don’t have much to add.

If I wanted to know something about the LGBT/Disabled/Scottish community I’d start a thread in those areas and I’d assume I’d get an answer or be gently corrected. (A specific question that is, not a wide-eyed how can I not offend you people question).

Why is the black section any different?

While I’m here, can I vote again for black perspectives? I don’t feel it’s divisive or othering.

I like black perspectives.

Is there any way I can make like a multiple question thing for people to vote on?

Or maybe yabu - black mum's matter
Yanbu - black perspectives

I feel like there were a few more name suggestions though

@Quaagars

I do take that point but honestly in 2020 there’s no excuse. Maturity demands that we take responsibility for our own ongoing education otherwise there’s no hope for our children as they pick up so much from us at home. I have educated myself on LGBTQ

Totally agree, I've done the same, was trying to answer from myself say 10 years ago.
Would have meant no malice, but can see how it could have come across as "I see no colour!" or whatever.
Now as you say there's no excuse as can read up and that's what I have done, whether it be LGBT or being black (both nothing I'd usually know about) but have read up on both experiences and people really should too

Honestly thank you! It is refreshing to find someone who gets it. That’s what gives me hope.

I have 2 black boys so I’m very invested in changing the narrative and creating an equal world for them but it scares me that some of these people on this thread could be their teachers, future employers etc

*In some cases I don’t think the question is genuine but another form of othering. It’s ‘tell me what I need to know about you so YOU don’t feel offended by what I say’. Then your response is questioned.

If you are asking in good faith, there are a mountain of resources here (see numerous resource linked in these threads) and via Google.

Workplaces are now full of "diversity task forces" my DH is a member of about 5 groups at work "black dad's" "BAME Inclusion" etc - these aren't segregation - they aren't imposed by the "ruling white elite" they are safe spaces to share experiences and discuss bias in the workplace and how to overcome it.

If people can't take an hour of their time to read a thread, they are not that bothered*

Sorry can't tag all. Just catching up and think these are very important points to repeat.

I honestly don't think that many of the posts by the OP are doing her cause any favours.
Favours? I don't need a favour. A white person not being racist is no favour to me.

Lots of people including me (for the avoidance of doubt) support the idea, but cannot support the overtly offensive way other posters are being spoken to.
What's that old saying? Respect me and I'll respect you.
Come onto my thread without reading it and asking ignorant questions isn't respectful so I will no longer respect you.

@Venicelover

[quote AMemeByAnyOtherName]**@PatricksRum* @Dastardlythefriendlymutt* I decided to go off and find some examples of things we can look forward to never seeing again on the new boards...

[[https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3342628-afro-black-hair-help?pg=1
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am]]iibeingunreasonable/3342628-afro-black-hair

Basically says "don't expect help here"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/multicultural_families/1218500-Barber-said-he-doesnt-do-afro-hair-as-its-too-hard-How-hard-is-a-grade-2-all-over

"No of course it wasn't racist"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/education/3752250-Black-Parents-with-DC-in-independent-Schools-in-London

"Who on earth thinks about diversity when sending their black child to school?! Shame on you"

Who knows... maybe black people will actually join the site in future! [/quote]
I briefly looked. I can't even read anymore. It's just
I just want to pass on strength

@Dastardlythefriendlymutt

With all due respect if your support is so easily withdrawn because OP and posters are not "polite enough" while dealing with the microaggressions, whataboutery and blatant racism on this and the other thread, I really doubt we had your support to begin with, and that's okay. Please feel free to vent to MN or start a new thread, but can we now keep this thread focused on suggestions going forward.

(Asking people to be more polite is when asking is no different to talking a woman to smile or be nice or saying she is aggressive or arrogant when she is assertive).

@amemebyanyothername literal eye roll at those threads. I can't believe people honestly say these things

Thank you.

@bedjolly

I think you're entitled to whatever section you like OP. If you would like to speak about black issues then that is entirely your right.

However, what I don't agree with is you saying, which I saw with my own eyes on another one of your threads 'if a white person talks in this section then they should be banned'. How dreadful. I would never tell anyone of any colour that they were not allowed to post somewhere simply because of SKIN COLOUR. Disgusting.

I know exactly what you're referring to. And it wasn't me who said it. 🤣 twas one of your white allies.

Great comprehension skills(!)

I don't get it. Would it not be racist if people were told to go to the black section, not the main area. And if there was a white Section that would even worse. I thought life was about including everyone equally now, not ship off to your own secret area