“Racism” towards the Irish on here

[Giantbanger]

Can we please talk about it and can you please get your mods some training.

There was a thread that stood from yesterday. The op was goady and people were reporting the fuck out of it from yesterday.

It went this morning because the op was previously banned for being goady. No surprises there then.

But it contained a post from a member of MNHQ that really bothered me and I would like to discuss.

Add message | Report | Message poster EstherMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 29-Oct-18 19:43:38
Hello!
Thanks for all the reports on this one. We'd like to leave this up as it's a pretty interesting discussion - one for the colonial/post colonial literature experts perhaps (yes - we know there's an argument over whether Irish literature counts as such!) - so please keep to the spirit of the site when discussing this and make your points politely. Thanks

So if there’s a “racist” thread about the Irish, it is an interesting discussion and the Irish need to be polite when telling racists they are racists.

(And Yes. I know in the dictionary definition Irish isn’t a race. It’s a subset ethnicity of Caucasian but the term is used more broadly in general use than the dictionary definition.)

Agree with you OP, the level of ignorance is staggering but sadly not surprising.

I suggest the mods open a history book before posting the kind of rubbish we saw yesterday.

I didn’t see this thread but agree with OP. I also winced at, one for the colonial/post colonial literature experts perhaps (yes - we know there's an argument over whether Irish literature counts as such!). Might be just me but sounds a tad dismissive of Irish Literature, almost as if it’s inferior BUT it could be me not getting the nuance behind it.

Relic pretty sure the mod was being uncertain about whether Irish lit can be considered "post-colonial" or not, not whether it was literature or not - that's impossible to be in doubt.

I read it as 'it's an interesting debate about whether Irish literature counts under the umbrella of colonial/post colonial literature', not 'It's debatable if Irish literature is listerature'.

I didn’t even look at that thread. Was expecting to read some nonsense about James Joyce being from Hull so I didn’t look.
But yes I am always surprised but some of the comments.
I hope just out of ignorance rather than malicious!

But moderators in a busy discussion forum should receive education and training. Ignorance from MNHQ is not good enough.

My jaw dropped at that mod statement as well.

The mod statement is what I want to discuss. More then even the head itself. It’s racist.

*thread

Giantbanger
Is it a racist statement? Or are they saying that depending on people's views about Ireland and irish politics and history it is a debate about whether Irish literature would come under the umbrella of colonial or post colonial literature?

E.g. if one believes that Scotland is part of Britain and there is a British identity then Scots literature wouldn't come under colonial literature, but if one believes in Scottish independence and Scotland is unfairly being attached to the UK having had its sovereignty removed then Scots literature probably would be viewed as colonial literature.

Saying that there is an interesting debate wouldn't be racist surely?

If someone is a goady racist play nice and “spirit of the site”

Come on

To roughly repeat what I said on the original thread. MNHQ have always followed a wrong, careless, dismissive line on reports made on threads that discuss Ireland - history, politics, culture etc. They can't get it right, they never have done. It's either ignorance, disdain or carelessness. From being told that it's an interesting discussion, to be polite, it's only other posters sense of humour etc. I'm not really sure why MNHQ and a good few posters have such a blind spot but they do. I don't bother anymore to be honest- I got fed up very quickly of the it's up to you to educate other disingenuous posters attitude that was shown.

Spoon - thank you. I missed out the context in which it was said.

I always wonder about the diversity of MNHQ. I think therein might lie the answer to Implants questions.

I winced too at that Mod statement op.

Totally agree OP. This has been going on far too long. I didn’t see this thread when I posted my own thread about the same. I have C&Pd my OP from that one below.

Can we have a a discussion about the anti Irish position that MNHQ holds?1
Today 10:18 IStandWithPosie

I don’t think I’m alone in needing some answers as to why MNHQ consider it appropriate to endorse deliberately offensive posts and threads aimed at the Irish posters here on MN. It’s very clear some people are targeting Irish MNers with the sole aim of causing offence knowing that HQ will facilitate their abuse. This has been a long running issue on MN but there has been a notable and worrying increase in threads of this nature recently whereby Irish MNers are having to see this stuff on an almost weekly basis. It is not ok, and I think MNHQ need to take responsibility for creating a culture where the people writing these threads and posts feel welcome and confident to do so. I would like to have a discussion here where MNHQ will engage with Irish MNers on this issue and actually listen to what we are saying. There is a problem here and it’s being ignored.

I totally agree with you OP, that is a tone-deaf, ignorant post from the MN mods. And I am not Irish. You don't have to be Irish to see the problem with it, you just have to be a decent human being with a basic grasp of world history.

And the other thing is, that you need to set that mod statement in the context of the thread in which is was made. which was a racist goady thread designed. And the mod basically said yeah that's ok to post that and you who are offended, play nice.

Giantbanger
I'm not on about the poster being goady. They were and there were some awful posts on thay thread.

I'm on about the claim that acknowledging a debate may exist is racist. I'm not convinced it is.

Totally agree.

I was involved in a discussion which everyone was finding interesting about trans issues.

Guess what? Removed.

It's ridiculous.

There's a way to phrase that question that isn't racist Maisy, for sure, but the OP of the thread that drew the comment from the mod that I am so upset by, well, it wasn't phrased in a way to be aware of the feelings of the Irish people on here (or indeed more generally).

I don’t agree that discussing whether Irish literature falls under the bracket of colonial or post-colonial literature is racist. It is (or used to be at least) a pretty live discussion in academic disciplines, unsurprisingly given Ireland’s complex and hybrid historic status within the United Kingdom and British Empire.

I do agree that there’s an insistent and nasty undercurrent of anti Irish sentiment on MN, tolerated by MNHQ.

Didn’t see the thread in question - was it another tedious iteration of ‘is throwing a paddy racist? Well I never’

They did remove the thread, which is fine.

But they removed it because it was by a goady PBP, not because it was racist.

And the statement from the mod is just staggering in its insensitivity and it's attitude towards the offence caused to Irish people by the OP.

was it another tedious iteration of ‘is throwing a paddy racist?

No it was “are Irish writers really Irish when they wrote in English and went to English schools?”

And that was "even if the schools weren't English but were in what is now Northern Ireland and even if the universities they went to were on the island of Ireland"