“Racism” towards the Irish on here

[Giantbanger]

Can we please talk about it and can you please get your mods some training.

There was a thread that stood from yesterday. The op was goady and people were reporting the fuck out of it from yesterday.

It went this morning because the op was previously banned for being goady. No surprises there then.

But it contained a post from a member of MNHQ that really bothered me and I would like to discuss.

Add message | Report | Message poster EstherMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 29-Oct-18 19:43:38
Hello!
Thanks for all the reports on this one. We'd like to leave this up as it's a pretty interesting discussion - one for the colonial/post colonial literature experts perhaps (yes - we know there's an argument over whether Irish literature counts as such!) - so please keep to the spirit of the site when discussing this and make your points politely. Thanks

So if there’s a “racist” thread about the Irish, it is an interesting discussion and the Irish need to be polite when telling racists they are racists.

(And Yes. I know in the dictionary definition Irish isn’t a race. It’s a subset ethnicity of Caucasian but the term is used more broadly in general use than the dictionary definition.)

I'd love to hear that discussion. MN deciding whether it's worth appeasing the Paddies.

I agree, I happened upon the thread after the MNHQ post. I saw it, I was horrified, I ran.

MN is absolutely 100% allowing repeated xenophobic offensive stuff about Ireland and Irish people to stay up every single week. If they're trying to broaden MNs appeal beyond the Women's Institute Little Englander Brexiteer stereotype they're not giving that impression.

And yes to whoever said the Baby Names topic is a racist shit show.

I have reported posts before that have made comments about members of the IRA etc (lauding them in some cases) and they haven't been removed. There does seem to be some kind of hostility towards Irish people here.

And MNHQ would you ever just trust us when we tell you that we find something offensive. It isn't for you to decide what is and isn't offensive, if we tell you something is racist then bloody well listen to us, eh?

I can’t beleive I haven’t had a response from mnhq. I’ve reported and I started this thread. And. Nothing.

*believe

"MNHQ would you ever just trust us when we tell you that we find something offensive. It isn't for you to decide what is and isn't offensive, if we tell you something is racist then bloody well listen to us, eh?"

So so true!

I’m Irish, still living here, and I was disgusted by that Mod post. I wonder if they’ll respond here.

I’m really upset not to even have had an acknowledgement.

It’s a bit odd isn’t it? Several people reported the thread, why only respond to one and that one isn’t even the OP of the thread!

www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/abroad/english-ignorance-about-ireland-just-isn-t-funny-anymore-1.3677267?mode=amp

Pretty topical article, the most read on today's Irish times website

Focalpoint that is such a good article. It made me think that there’s an “English privilege” that so many English people are unaware they have. A blissful ignorance of the effect colonialism has had near and far. I don’t know if the lads referred to in the article knew how their tweeds would be perceived in Dublin, nor that the couple thinking of watching the famine film realised how ignorant they sounded.

I think MNHQ’s handling of this issue today, demonstrates that it too could do with checking its privilege.

I am astounded by the ignorance of the mods comment

I am Irish and was simply AGOG at that mod post. It was so very ill considered.

Hi all,

We're just posting to say we hear you and this thread has been seen.

It's not much of an excuse, but we've been rushed off our feet for the past couple of days and that sometimes means we don't get to things as quickly as we'd perhaps like (like this thread).

A more detailed response from a senior MNHQer will be posted - just wanted to assure you all that we are listening and will be taking a closer look.

I really honestly am upset at that Lily. Sorry.

This is a RACISM issue. It’s not one person being a little bit offended. It’s a RACISM issue.

Would you ignore it if the people complaining were BAME. I don’t think you would.

Disclaimer: I am English (mixed, but not Irish)

I now ‘blame’ the bbc a fair bit for some of my ignorance. Their reporting in the 80s and 90s made the Troubles sound like a fuss between churches, rather than anything to do with the English/Irish history.
Even now I have to remind myself that this is clearly incorrect. I didn’t know until it was pointed out to me.....

It isn’t any excuse of course but the rhetoric was very poor and I wonder if that is where some of the comments come from.

I don’t know and am certainly no expert on Irish history now either!

And I think that given that the point of the thread was about what was posted by a member of the hq team I’m a bit disappointed it’s not a priority for hq.

@ giantbanger thank you for raising this. I stumbled upon the thread last night and was too shattered to respond but you are 100% right, the tone was xenophobic, dismissing of concerns, and the moderation ignorant of history and recent context.

I also echo @ elspethflashman the Baby Names sections can be so anti Irish they are laughable. It’s ok to be naive, it’s not ok to continually insist the use of a language other than English is a joke.

Hopefully if mods are discussing, there may be space to make moderation of these discriminatory posts a priority. I’ll admit this has prompted me to realize as an individual I should use ‘report’ more often!

There’s nothing stopping anyone from learning about Irish history! Read a book, find someone Irish or of Irish descent, sit them down with a cuppa and ASK THEM.

Blaming what you saw on telly 30 years ago for the views you hold today is no excuse.

I posted on that thread yesterday and I'll reiterate what i said as best I can.

Irish people don't want to have to fight this every day. We just want to get on with our own shit, post away here and not have to be a teacher to those who are either ignorant or goady.

And when we do try to explain or defend, we are told sure we are over reacting! Don't they know someone Irish and they take no offence! It's not racism!

It's like we are being gas lighted.

Yes, CraicMammy, I’ve often said to my Scottish DH that Englishness is like the white person’s version of white privilege. There is a myopia that comes with it, a lack of knowledge of other cultures and languages and an inability to see how hurtful or offensive some viewpoints are.

Delighted to see this. I’m another Irish person living in England who is tired and bored of dealing with frequent low-level stereotyping and ignorance, and was dismayed by the dismissive tone of the MNHQ post on the goady, faux-naive Irish writers thread.

MNHQ, please listen when Irish people tell you, clearly and civilly, why something is offensively ignorant and stereotyping.

To the poster earlier who mentioned Colm Toibin’s new book, yes, of course William Wilde was a ‘Victorian’ — in fact he was oculist-in-ordinary to Victoria, and later knighted by her for services to medicine — but he was a firmly Irish Victorian. Born in Ireland, was educated entirely at Irish schools and universities, practised medicine in Dublin, had his own hospital in Dublin, was married to a strongly nationalist poet, wrote books on Irish folklore and archaeology, travelled widely but spent no significant time in Britain and never practised there. What about that suggests he didn’t identify as Irish?

Now, had the OP of the writers thread asked a more open-ended question about Big House writers such as Somerville and Ross or Elizabeth Bowen, and the extent to which they identified as having a hybrid Anglo-Irish identity, that would have been a different matter.

I'm glad to see a discussion about this. Thanks OP for raising it.

I’m Irish, married to an Englishman living in England. Am so tired of the anti Irish sentiment that is tolerated on MN under colonial/postcolonial ideology.