“Racism” towards the Irish on here

[Giantbanger]

Can we please talk about it and can you please get your mods some training.

There was a thread that stood from yesterday. The op was goady and people were reporting the fuck out of it from yesterday.

It went this morning because the op was previously banned for being goady. No surprises there then.

But it contained a post from a member of MNHQ that really bothered me and I would like to discuss.

Add message | Report | Message poster EstherMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 29-Oct-18 19:43:38
Hello!
Thanks for all the reports on this one. We'd like to leave this up as it's a pretty interesting discussion - one for the colonial/post colonial literature experts perhaps (yes - we know there's an argument over whether Irish literature counts as such!) - so please keep to the spirit of the site when discussing this and make your points politely. Thanks

So if there’s a “racist” thread about the Irish, it is an interesting discussion and the Irish need to be polite when telling racists they are racists.

(And Yes. I know in the dictionary definition Irish isn’t a race. It’s a subset ethnicity of Caucasian but the term is used more broadly in general use than the dictionary definition.)

Like it or not the ! and the statement about whether Irish literature "counts as such" was dismissive.

And I do think there's an element of "is it even literature if it's not Anglo-Irish" in what the mod said - is Irish literature even counted as literature. And if she didn't mean that, she should have thought more about how she was phrasing her post because it definitely could have been read that way.

I saw the thread yesterday but didn't post on it as I was too tired to articulate what I wanted to say but I too was astounded at the MN response to it being reported.

because Irish isn’t a race

Did a mod say that? Or another poster?

Equality act definition of race is: an individual, or a group of people, who are identified by their nationality, citizenship, colour, national or ethnic origins. As such, anti-Irish prejudice and discrimination is definitely racism in a legal context, in the UK.

MNHQ gets to set the rules, and I have no problem with that. But I do have a problem if they are not being applied consistently and fairly as much as is possible, and there have been several long, very visible, threads recently where racism towards us Irish has been excused by a mod as interesting debate.

Not on the subject of literature but I have been shocked at the attitudes towards the Irish border following the Brexit vote. So dismissive. The fact it wasn't even mentioned by either side during the campaign says it all.

The baby names forum is always a shit show.
I'm not sure some English believe is when we say Irish is it's own language.

No it was “are Irish writers really Irish when they wrote in English and went to English schools?”

I'm actually laughed at how outrageous that is!!! Bloody hell. British are often very ignorant in my experience. Usually there's no malice in it, just a result of poor education and an education that's been completely whitewashed.

Mumsnet response seems very ignorant.

For context, I've one Irish parent, one English, raised Irish but have worked and lived in the UK.

There is casual anti-sub-Caucasian stuff in here all the time. All the anti American anti Irish anti Australian things that are said. It appears that because they are predominantly white it is ok. Which it isn’t. There are posters from all over the world in this site and to have your whole nationality bashed repeatedly because this is a UK site really turns you off. Very insular. Fine if your target demographic is only the U.K. but then what is that representing the U.K. people as to the wider world? You call Australians racist but wow take a look at what is said about Aussies on here!

Not on the subject of literature but I have been shocked at the attitudes towards the Irish border following the Brexit vote. So dismissive. The fact it wasn't even mentioned by either side during the campaign says it all.

@Bobbybobbins a lot of British people just don't even understand what Northern Ireland is and its relation to the UK. It's wild

There was some shocking opinions said over the course of the Ashers bakery threads which really showed a lot of ignorance to me.

Of course, they weren’t deleted as accusing the entire population NI of being backwards knuckle-draggers is totally acceptable.

@MNHQ are you going to respond to this thread?

I've reported the thread to see if we can get a response.

To be very honest, I'm disappointed in the lack of a response to us.

I'm getting responses to other reports, so it's only this thread that is being ignored.

Thank you for this thread, I too was disappointed in the response MNHQ provided. A large number of people were offended by what was said regarding writers from Ireland’s “Britishness”. MNHQ failed, through ignorance, or indifference, in my view, to understand the reasons that offence had been caused, and minimised it by dismissing it as an academic argument about literature.

I would encourage MNHQ to seek training for its mods on the issues arising from the UK’s rule of Ireland, that legacy is alive and kicking. It is an issue of particular sensitivity for me, as a dual Irish/UK national, happily married to someone from a different Irish background. A very hard won peace is in peril, due to too many people ignoring the impact Brexit would have on the Belfast Agreement, I believe MNHQ has a duty to ensure that discussions on this forum recognise the magnitude of the situation and not enable anti-Irish sentiment to be published without check.

bobbybobbins to be fair I heard both John Major and Tony Blair talk about the border and the GFA before the referendum. I think there were NI politicians talking about it as well.
I am agree with maisypops about the discussion.

'I have no problem with the discussion as a discussion - it was the racist tone of the OP and some of what the OP and others said.'
Totally agree with you @giantbanger
It wasn't posted for an informative discussion. It was posted to be intentionally provocative and the mod message was just not on.

I was reading it this morning when it went pop. I wasn't at all surprised by MNHQ's comment or the blatant anti-Irish sentiment. MNet have a habit of viewing anyone not white, MC and English as "other" and somehow less.

I still have no response on email.

I’m really quite disheartened. If it isn’t even worth an answer there’s no hope for an attitude change.

I usually just ignore posts and let them go, but I think I'll start reporting the anti-Irish stuff when I see it.

We clearly aren’t going to get an answer today. Not even a “discussing in the office will get back to you” and that feels incredibly rude and dismissive.

I’ve had an email saying they are discussing this in the office and hope to get back to us soon

Please do broomstick, it’s what I’m going to do from now on in the hope that HQ realise just how prevalent this stuff is on here.

That’s good Istand but I haven’t and they haven’t said anything on the thread here.

I am too. Every time.

It’s a pretty poor show that they can’t even post that on the thread itself isn’t it.

Yes Istand I honestly think it’s really poor.

That mod post was totally “beyond the pale”. And I’d like to think that someone at hq could at least have come along at some point today and apologised for that at least.