Some topics not showing up in searches

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Specifically anything in Feminism has stopped showing up in the "Last Hour" or "Last 15 minutes" search.

I know they are there and I know there are recent posts so why don't they show?

I’ve never seen this.

Oh god NoSquirrels, don't challenge me! If I didn't have the kids' grandparents here I could knock you out link after link in five minutes flat. Here's a fun thread about avocadoes for starters;

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3174064-I-don-t-like-the-term-peak-trans?pg=6&order=

people would immediately start calling you a thick or stupid handmaiden or a man

I really haven't seen this. Or at least if it was there, it was moderated very quickly. These claims that this happened immediately and all the time tend to undermine your argument to be frank.

On the other hand, a poster is, right now this minute, calling GC women "disgusting" and "vile" on the other thread. I have seen quite a bit of this.

I've seen some frustrated and enraged posters refer to groups of people pretty harshly (Well, still tame compared to twitter), but not being particularly harsh with individual posters who disagree with them.

So when a TRA's bad behaviour is defended by women, referring to the women as 'handmaidens' and warning of a dire future which is all their fault. I'd call that a bit dramatic, rather than hateful, to be honest.

On the other hand, a poster is, right now this minute, calling GC women "disgusting" and "vile" on the other thread. I have seen quite a bit of this.

Yes. I reported that post and it's still standing. Interesting, isn't it?

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth

See, good luck with that attitude. I can dislike your attitude to trans topics and still hold GC beliefs. I believe that self id should be fine but not for institutions that are vulnerable. That's considered "transphobic" on twitter but I can still dislike the sour negativity on mumsnet threads

Backingvocals

I really haven't seen this. Or at least if it was there, it was moderated very quickly. These claims that this happened immediately and all the time tend to undermine your argument to be frank.

You can believe I'm lying but if the tone is getting to the point of MNHQ shutting the debate down, I'm guessing they don't think it's a rare thing. But the amusing thing is that we can agree to disagree. Since you seem to well on the way to shutting the FWR board down yourselves, it doesn't matter what I think, does it!!

Your description of "sour negativity on mumsnet threads" tells me everything I need to know about your 'attitude', Saiya

Oooh, does it AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth? Am I "found out"?

LOL

Yep. It's all a conspiracy which of course includes MNHQ whose concern about the tone of the trans threads is also a complete fabrication. Everyone is lying. You're 100% correct. Enjoy being right for as long as you can (which judging by the last few couple of threads on this issue won't be very long).

MNHQ: the tone on these threads is too negative
FC POSTERS: yes it's all the goady trans activists
MNHQ: no it's on threads where they aren't even around
FC POSTERS: the goady trans activists make us so angry we have to call them names and insult anyone who disagrees with us
MNHQ: yeah, well stop doing that
RANDOM POSTER: yeah, the board has seemed pretty ott nasty
FC POSTERS: LIAR! i've never seen any negativity on this topic. it doesn't exist!

denial isn't a river and all that...

I’ve never seen this. I’ve seen people get frustrated by posters not arguing their points

I've seen it lots of times. If someone came on to 'defend' trans people, they often got called a handmaiden or a man or an MRA.

@yetanothertranswoman

Hell, I watched them decide to give you a verbal kicking last night for the temerity of:

a) having an opinion that doesn't match the groupthink there

b) sharing a personal experience about why the use of certain insults impacts you

c) and, of course, the cardinal sin of trying to stand up for yourself

The truth is, when you can no longer speak the truth, regardless of the reasons and the politics behind that decision, than that truth is lost.

"Truth is great and will prevail if left to herself, that she is the proper and sufficient antagonist to error, and has nothing to fear from the conflict, unless by human interposition disarmed of her natural weapons, free argument and debate; errors ceasing to be dangerous when it is permitted freely to contradict them."
Thomas Jefferson

The truth sets us free. Remember the truth. Even if it is unspeakable. It is what will set you free ultimately.

I fear for the future. Its not about this issue at all although it is one close to my heart. Its about how targeting can shut down parts of MN.

Why will MN be targeted?

You know the answer to that.

And because you can say things here in an intellectual way that reaches a lot of people. The wide base is the issue. (The very thing that give MN its revenue.) Its not towing a particular political line. Critical thought is a dangerous thing and must not be allowed.

That's the bottom line for me.

MN is no longer somewhere to be free to express an opinion without fear. People will slip away because they are no longer free.

This will not be the last time. It will happen again and again now the genie is out the bottle.

What do people value about MN? What is MNs value?

I hope MN reflects on what really gives it power and influence and reflects on whether it wants to dumb down to only what is 'safe' and 'easy'. MN always has been different and better because it didn't do that and wasn't like that.

I hope I am wrong. I fear I am not.

Roberts said: “A significant minority of our users feel very strongly about women’s rights and very uneasy [about the proposals]. This is an issue that needs to be discussed and that’s why we’re prepared to take any potential advertising hit.”

Justine in the Sunday Times today.

Open access link: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mumsnet-founder-justine-roberts-transgender-activists-try-to-curb-free-speech-on-site-z3sr3nf6q?shareToken=ade388be59ac427155003eff83c5158c

Justine Roberts. More balls than Millwall.

Interesting.

And awful to think how the TRA are trying to stifle debate everywhere. Coming across to mumsnet and threatening advertisers is quite a bullying thing to do isnt it?

I found this thread as I've learnt a lot from mumsnet - I certainly wasn't aware of the potential issues and think many are sleepwalking into a future where women are downtrodden again. I was aware I couldn't find the feminism posts:(

It's not awful.

Its bloody outrageous. Especially since numerous political parties are involved.

It isn't lost on me as to why TRAs seem to be over represented in political parties even if they don't have MPs (why are lesbians seemingly so underrepresented?). Their identity is their entire life and activism is everything.

Certainly I know that I'm limited in what I could do in terms of political involvement because of child care and family commitments. I can't dedicate my life to it. Even if I was dedicated and passionate. Going to conference or taking up a local post is totally out of the question. Any volunteering end up being related to kids. Austerity and a baby boom would compound any such effect. And hence why student politics would be particularly influential too.

I wonder if that is the very thing which makes the difference in terms of influence - the thing that women on MN are concerned about - biological barriers and the social issues they create. Whilst there might be more women interested and involved in politics than there has been in the past, just how influential and involved at grassroots level are they? Its not just party membership, its the level of involvement within that. Particularly women with children of school age or younger. We only really hear of the number of female MPs and whilst that is important its only a tiny facet of political representation.

I wonder if this is something that has been looked and studied at by anyone. My guess is that its an area that isn't valued and is therefore overlooked. Any since we don't know this information, we can't fight back with it.

I wonder if MN would be interested in exploring this as an issue at some point. In terms of any campaigning they do on other subjects, its relevant because its possibly why there is a need for MN to campaign in those areas in the first place, because these issues don't have as many champions within politics - at all levels - as they deserve.

And many thanks on that Sunday Times article. It really is important.

Really good points RedToothBrush - the whole political party system as been taken over by largely male, university educated political career types - so the local class activists have almost disappeared. These Uni types firstly are largely male, secondly have no idea of the pressures facing women parents, especially lone parents, and they now dominate any internal political dialogue - as we have seen from Labour and Tory.

The self ID was driven by Maria Miller, a women without humility as demonstrated by the earlier expenses scandal that forced her out (so no friend to women) plus Justine Greening a BI woman, who is no friend of all women. They both seem to have their own selfish agendas and excluded women from consultations. They consulted all LGBT groups but no women's groups. Labour are as bad with Dawn Butler MP, who again seems more aligned to LGBT at the expense of women.

Women's voices are sadly missing from the date on all sides - the Greens don't even recognise women as a sex but as "non men". WEP defend male abusers (Tara Wolf recently found guilty of assault).

There is no political party that is a friend of women and that seeks out womens' voices and to represent women - we can make a contribution but using alternative channels like tele conferencing etc from home - it shouldn't be all based on presenteeism - but you know men choose the game and pitch, make the rules and referee it - we are bystanders in our own her-story

I have advised all I know - women are 51% of population and make 80% of all consumer purchasing decisions. Trans are around 1% and TRAs even smaller percentage. There's 12m women on MN.

As a supermarket or corporate - who would you want on your side??? Mail all large supermarkets, advertisers on here etc and tell them to do the maths… every mail counts

And mention it at Customer Service of any large store when you next go shopping - ask them to feed it back to their HQ - tell them women collectively have a lot of purchasing power and we will use it if they allow TRAs to silence legitimate dissent and discussion

TRAs are thugs using mob tactics to stop discussion about keeping the safeguarding we and our children need and that is already in law. We want to keep what we have - what's so wrong with that and why is that Transphobic (only to TRAs not moderates).

I find that MN is one of the only channels I can be political and potentially have any effect because of social structure, political structure and the reality of my life.

Even if its just about awareness and providing an alternative view point which isn't immediately put in the bin because its simply a lone voice in a room of people who don't share the same priorities. You can chip away for years on a subject and make a difference here. Even if its just supporting people feeling abandoned by society and politicians for whatever reason.

That's important even if no one ever really sees it as a big thing or massive achievement. The stuff on post natal care has sprung from exactly that type of thing. It would never go anywhere within the confines of a political party. I really do applaud MN for going for it. That political parties are not seeing this gap and recognising this and doing something about it, is poor.

The current political climate makes it very difficult for isolated voices to get heard. There isn't much listening to voices outside the echo chambers of traditional political power. Even with the new influence of twitter and facebook, i'm not sure everyone is being involved in the massive political changes currently happening.

Its been a criticism for some years now. If you are not highly involved and in the right circle, you have very little opportunity or ability to be heard. Not everyone can do that.

Work to think of alternative channels of communication and involvement is much needed.

We currently have a dynamic where it's about political parties speaking at the public rather than listening better. Divergence from the official sanctioned line or even the unofficial line, isn't tolerated. And you have to be on script with the latest political outrage, rather than talking about something from an alternative approach. This has got worse, not better in recent years.

This is MNs power, and what attracts a lot of users to the site. The trivial stuff is important too, but I do believe the glue that keeps it sharpest is this aspect of the site; the constant low level political buzz on even the mundane that doesn't have life elsewhere. You don't have to be a crazy headed activist to be involved or contribute something meaningful and worthwhile and you don't have to know it all to get a point heard.

I don't know. I just find what is missing from politics noteworthy by its absence.

I don't know. I just find what is missing from politics noteworthy by its absence

As I say about the sealions - it's what they don't say and don't do which is where the abuse of women takes place - the ignoring, dismissal and minimisation of very important issues from our perspective - no mention, no moving towards, just disdain.

Those in politics and positions of power do the same - which is why this centralisation of those voices on MN is so important and powerful, in its own way. Respect has been earned over the years - shame more don't come here to ask and listen

Labour are as bad with Dawn Butler MP, who again seems more aligned to LGBT at the expense of women.

And at the expense of lesbians, about whom LGBT now doesn't give a shit.

HQ, have you read the thread in AIBU about Justine in the Sunday times?

Every single poster is in support of what she has said. From advocating for free speech, to people wanting the names of advertisers who pull out. Support is across the board for free speech.

And there are lots of women saying they would have no clue about feminism, (not just the trans issue), if threads hadn't shown up in active.

Women who are saying they had no words to voice their feelings or objections in their relationships, until they read about feminism. In active.

The feminist section on this site is not just vital, it's pioneering.

It winds its way into the homes of women everywhere. Women who would never have considered feminism, or why it's necessary. And it helps.

It gives women strength and context. It connects them to other women with a shared pattern of experience. It's equips them with tools they didn't know existed.

I suspect the timing of muting feminism is significant in terms of the article. Justine advocating for civilised discussion in the article has to be justified and backed up by what you have said and done on here.

I'm sure that there is now a period of watchful waiting. But, please, please reinstate feminism in active as soon as humanly possible.

This is possibly not going to be popular, but given the massive growth of MN, would employing a larger, wraparound moderating team not be an option?
It may be time to accept that MN is now too big and too well known to run as a self regulating community. You need to protect this site and for the sake of an additional £150k* spend a year it seems short sighted not to invest in defensive methods.

Continually expecting your customers to manage the product and brand reputation really isn't on with a business the size of MN.

ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/06/13/2190074/mumsnet-a-bootstrapped-british-success/

*rough guess, 4 wfh 37.5hrs, wages plus NI, employers liability etc

I have just joined MN. My main reason for (finally) deciding to join was to offer support and thank to MN and Justine Roberts for standing firm against bullying by trans activist threats to advertisers in the Times article by Andrew Gilligan. Now I can't find the FWR threats! I feel terribly let down

Hi all,

In case anyone hasn't seen our posts on this thread in AIBU and this one in Feminism Chat we just wanted to let you know that FWR threads will be showing up in Active Conversations again from tomorrow.

This was only ever hoped to be a short-term measure but we've taken on board the strength of feeling expressed on this thread and elsewhere on the site.

Thanks for your patience, everyone. Here's to civil debate.