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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Deliberate misgendering - will MN do anything to discourage it?

201 replies

SuperDandy · 21/02/2018 08:28

I've reported a lot of posts lately for deliberate misgendering of individuals, but MN seems not to do anything about it ever.

Pick any thread you like that's relates to transgender in any way, and up pop the deliberate and persistent misgendering posters. It's bullying, and it's transphobic.

I'd really like to know what mn's position is on this.

OP posts:
harlaandgoddard · 21/02/2018 13:03

Sorry stitch I’m not up to date with the correct language and am not saying I agree with self ID. I’m sure the majority of people would agree that’s an issue if they are aware of women’s rights taking a hit. I wasn’t aware until I joined MN and I probably would’ve said self ID is fine, what’s the problem before joining. It took me a good 6 months or so of being on here though to come to that conclusion because I couldn’t get past all the rudeness/transphobia which still goes on now so I would avoid most of those threads at first.

stitchglitched · 21/02/2018 13:08

What transphobia do you see? Most of those threads are saying exactly the same thing you are. In fact there are some transwomen who also regularly post on those threads with great concern about the current vocal trans ideology and its implications for both women and those with genuine dysphoria.

harlaandgoddard · 21/02/2018 13:24

Well to name a few deliberate misgendering, a comment about ‘a bloke in a dress’ (this could have been one of the idiots mentioned TBF but it was a stand alone comment, they had nothing more to say), transwomen (as in one who’s fully transitioned) will never be ‘real’ women whatever that means, how a surgically created vagina is nothing but a ‘hole’ and that it won’t convince anyone, comments likening having gender dysphoria (sorry I don’t know the correct term) to a toddler pretending to be an animal I think are really insensitive at best.

Also, correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think there’s any harm in a fully transitioned person being allowed to call themselves a woman/man or using the toilet/changing room of their choice. But some people are very passionately against that.

stitchglitched · 21/02/2018 13:37

Ah I see. Whilst some of that may be crassly worded it is all pretty factual. I think the silencing of reality through accusations of transphobia is a worrying trend but MN will report transphobic comments if you report.

sexyegg · 21/02/2018 13:38

Fucking trans debates again 😫

OP - I like that you've started this thread. Shame the anti-trans brigade have to come along and throw their two cents in as usual.

stitchglitched · 21/02/2018 13:43

Also most women haven't had an issue with fully transitioned people using female toilets etc, this has been happening for years under a kind of honour system. But they object to being told that these individuals are literally women when many of these people themselves acknowledge they are not. The position of these people is jeopardised by the proposals for self ID and the current trans narrative. The only objections I have seen are where their own rights might be violated by this such as sharing personal space in a refuge or having intimate health examinations done, and the Equality Act allows exemptions even against those who have fully transitioned if the reason is proportionate.

Original poster
SuperDandy · 21/02/2018 13:43

@ChardonnaysPrettySister I've been working, not refreshing MN every ten minutes

Thank you MNHQ for responding. I'll go take a look at the thread you mentioned.

Maybe you could have a reminder that you can sling up on threads that are trans related to remind posters about the limits as you have set them.

It would surely be easier and more effective to be proactive about setting the tone than to have to find and delete posts, leaving the Swiss cheese effect.

For what it's worth, I've reported many times for deliberate misgendering and have yet to see evidence of deletion, but maybe I've just not been back to look for it specifically. I'm not convinced report and delete is going to be very effective on this because there tend to be a high number of posts that are misgendering.

OP posts:
FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 21/02/2018 13:49

Well to name a few deliberate misgendering, a comment about ‘a bloke in a dress’ (this could have been one of the idiots mentioned TBF but it was a stand alone comment

I said 'bloke in a dress' on this thread.

I hope you weren't referencing me, but just in case you were - it wasn't a stand alone comment at all.

In fact, here's the 'bloke in a dress' comment in its full context:

^I do not hate or resent trans people & I am not 'phobic' about them at all.
I couldn't give a stuff if a bloke wants to wear a dress & lipstick & push the boundaries of 'being a man' - women have been doing the opposite for years after all.
I do however reject the notion that performing a narrow concept of gender magically morphs a person into the opposite sex.^

BiologyMatters · 21/02/2018 14:02

Faith i don't know how anyone can take your comment as transphobic. It's true.

FlaviaAlbia · 21/02/2018 14:20

I see @FabulouslyGlamorousFerret. I didn't see the threads as I didn't watch Big Brother and knew IW was most likely going to infuriate me.

My sympathy is limited tbh, from the unshaved legs are dirty article to that horrendous interview where they told Karen Ingala Smith they felt sorry for men when she was talking about her project recording women murdered by men, I'm almost inclined to put them in the professional troll/Katie's Hopkins category.

I do know MNHQ deleted the thread though so it sounds like the balance was there if the attacks were about the person rather than the person's behaviour. It's a fine line to tread but their behaviour has been appalling on occasion and I think we should be able to point it out.

harlaandgoddard · 21/02/2018 14:20

No faith sorry wasn’t aimed at you. Those are all just off the top of my head from threads I’ve read over the last couple of years. I totally missed your comment.

We could argue all day about whether something is transphobic/just a bit insensitive/no problem at all. But the bottom line is some people do find these comments offensive and I don’t think they actually contribute anything to the debate.

Margaret I can understand that and I certainly don’t think that makes you transphobic but then transpeople can turn around and say well I’m going to call someone cis if they’re transphobic towards me.

That’s just my perspective and I’m just someone fairly young who went to school with trans people and was taught to be open minded etc. So I can only imagine how someone feels if this issue is close to their heart.

BarrackerBarmer · 21/02/2018 14:33

How would the OP feel if her posts started being reported for 'missexing' people? Deliberately using the wrong pronouns to mislead others about a person's true sex?

Would that be acceptable?

At some point, you have to accept that whilst you can choose to use or misuse language to fit your own principles, so can others.
I personally think it is wrong, misleading, and damaging to women to ever refer to a male person as 'she', but I haven't yet felt the need to force correct pronoun usage on people like the OP.

OP you need to stop trying to police people into using language which actually misrepresents the sex of the subject. You are free to use incorrect pronouns as you wish and you'll find people indulge your choice and mostly ignore it. Return that courtesy to others. We at least are not being deceptive in the language we use.

stitchglitched · 21/02/2018 14:34

I think the comments about children thinking they are animals etc are usually in relation to the transing of kids aren't they? Used to express concern about how fickle and unrealistic kids can be and that setting them on a path to transition at a young age can be harmful. For example on a recent thread someone mentioned a 4 year old who was living as the opposite sex. I've never seen those kinds of comments in relation to adults with dysphoria but I may have missed them.

BanyanTree · 21/02/2018 15:02

it’s sad and sickening that posters here are so triumphantly hateful about transgender people.

If you read my post again exWife you will see that I make a clear distinction between people who are serious about transitioning from M-F or F-M. I have absolutely no issue with people who have gender dysphoria and make a full transition. In order for this to work for everyone there need to be boundaries in place. I have absolutely no time for people who have hijacked this cause for their own perverse means and I am pretty sure that the people who are genuine trans have no time for them either given the damage they have caused them.

Thisusernamethingistricky · 21/02/2018 16:07

Well to name a few deliberate misgendering, a comment about ‘a bloke in a dress’ (this could have been one of the idiots mentioned TBF but it was a stand alone comment, they had nothing more to say), transwomen (as in one who’s fully transitioned) will never be ‘real’ women whatever that means, how a surgically created vagina is nothing but a ‘hole’ and that it won’t convince anyone

But all of those thing are factual statements. I said this on another thread the other day, but I can't think of another legitimate movement in recent times where people are required to believe other people are something they are objectively absolutely not?

Ereshkigal · 21/02/2018 16:51

Of course these butch blokes in dresses trying to get into women's prisons shouldn't be referred to as 'she'. If a little common sense was applied then it would be a non issue and they'd be booted back to Strangeways with their tails untaped from between their legs!

How do you suggest we legislate this "common sense"?

TopBitchoftheWitches · 21/02/2018 16:54

So if I find being called 'cis' offensive, I can report it and the post will be deleted?

joystir59 · 21/02/2018 16:55

exWifebeginsat40 it is obvious that I'm a woman. When people glance at me and see the short grey hair they think I'm male for a moment and then immediately apologise once they see my female shape, features, breasts, hear my female voice. I haven't ever tried to ' pass' as anything else so have never been challenged at the toilet door. Nor will I ever be.

PhelanThePain · 21/02/2018 17:00

So if I find being called 'cis' offensive, I can report it and the post will be deleted?

That would be nice. I wouldn’t hold your breath though. HQ seem to be in favour of cissing.

Wheresmyfuckingcupcake · 21/02/2018 17:08

Barrackerbarner thank you. You have framed v eloquently what was in my head.
Trans people feel very strongly about their gender. I feel very strongly about truth, and scientific fact is part of that. If I am compelled to call a biological male she, I feel I am lying, and that offend my sense of who I am.
Why is a trans person allowed their sense of who they are when I am not allowed mine?

Ereshkigal · 21/02/2018 17:12

Also, correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think there’s any harm in a fully transitioned person being allowed to call themselves a woman/man or using the toilet/changing room of their choice. But some people are very passionately against that.

What exactly do you mean by a "fully transitioned person"? Because I'll make a wager with you it's not the same as Stonewall, Mermaids or Action for Trans Health, who have all fed into various organisational policies and government guidelines.

Ereshkigal · 21/02/2018 17:13

OP - I like that you've started this thread. Shame the anti-trans brigade have to come along and throw their two cents in as usual.

Feminists just don't know when to shut the fuck up about women's rights, do they?

Ereshkigal · 21/02/2018 17:15

Maybe you could have a reminder that you can sling up on threads that are trans related to remind posters about the limits as you have set them.

Yes, something like this: "we have always been at war with Eastasia".

Ereshkigal · 21/02/2018 17:18

I will not call a male she. If misgendering is banned I will get around it by not using pronouns at all.

TopBitchoftheWitches · 21/02/2018 17:34

phelan (seen you on the Corrie threads) Grin

Why are others allowed to mis gender me, which I find completely disgusting and insulting and get away with it on MN ?
@justineroberts