Deliberate misgendering - will MN do anything to discourage it?

[SuperDandy]

I've reported a lot of posts lately for deliberate misgendering of individuals, but MN seems not to do anything about it ever.

Pick any thread you like that's relates to transgender in any way, and up pop the deliberate and persistent misgendering posters. It's bullying, and it's transphobic.

I'd really like to know what mn's position is on this.

Who am I to invalidate someone else's emotions? If they feel it, it must be true to them

NO NO NO. There is an OBJECTIVE TRUTH.

This is why the fake news schtick from Trump is fucking the world up. We do not get to redefine reality on the basis of our feelings and then expect everyone else to reject a generally accepted consensus of truth because we feel something.

Your feelings, whatever they are, are yours. They may be valid - they are always valid for you but they may not align with reality. If they do not align with reality then it’s not reality that needs to change, it’s your perception.

@HangingRoundInABofAlorsStance So if I feel, for example, that all Muslims are terrorists that makes it true? Or if I feel that today is really Sunday I don't have to go to work?

I feel that my OH is the shittiest person in the world at times and other times they're the best. Which is true?

Feelings are not facts.

Or you are pre-op and fucked over royally because you cannot afford the surgery or been told it is off the table for health reasons.
And for you, a transman who still has a vagina is 'she' even if facing the same issues with surgery.
Given their respective situations, having to tuck/use a prosthetic, chucking the pronoun they would prefer is the humanist thing to do, surely.

Who am I to invalidate someone else's emotions? If they feel it, it must be true to them

Not that I agree with this, objective truth cannot be overuled by individual beliefs....

Buuut, if you do honestly believe this, why are my feelings that biological sex cannot be changed be true? Why is it okay to invalidate my emotions?

Ahem...my feelings that biological sex cannot be changed, be true to me?

Misgendering is hardly the crime of the century. As an old lesbian (a real one not a man with a lady dick) with short grey hair I get called sir sometimes in shops. Big fucking deal! Gender isn't even a thing.

referring to someone by a pronoun they've rejected is both goady and inflammatory

I find being asked to collude in a lie and being called goady and inflammatory if I don’t go along with it, goady. Just gaslighting to tell women that anyone, can become one, so we should all just ignore the fact they have a penis that these new women have .
Should we gather in the towns and burn the biology books, bloody untruthful things.

Protected job titles have more sway & protection than 'woman' at the moment.

I am a working class woman with no related training - I really, really feel that I should be a a clinical psychologist.

It's impossible for me to do this & if I pretended I'd be prosecuted.

Life is so unfair!
It's what I feel, and my personal identity as a clinical psychologist doesn't align with the objective reality that I am not.

Fucking cis clinical psychologists are fucking phobic about people like me & are oppressing me by not allowing me to practice.

That was to Banyan sorry, sloooww typist today (DS has taken the letters off my keyboard)
Emotions and belief systems/ideologies are not the same thing.

I think a lot of people feel pushed into a corner.

I always used to use preferred pronouns It's the humanist thing to do

I'd have no problem with Trans Identified Men using the ladies I understand how awkward they'd feel using the Men's because men can be a bunch of bastards about what they consider "different

But this isn't about the individual, this is about law and society.

There are already some very damaged individuals that are claiming trans status and then going on to commit awful sexual crimes against women, or using their 'womanhood' to access vulnerable women to harm them. I don't want these people (not genuine dysphoric transexuals, please note, TRA/MRA people who wish women and children harm) to have access to MY safe spaces.

I don't want trans to become something that someone can self ID into and out of at will.

I don't want people who have grown up with privilege, who have had access to opportunities as male, to transition to female and take opportunities that were earmarked for women.

I don't want female athletes to be outclassed by men that have reduced their testosterone levels to be far higher than a natal woman could achieve, that have longer bones, stronger musculature and quite frankly, pose a danger competing against women.

I just want some common sense.

Why can''t we voice our concern?
Why when we ask reasonable questions are we shut down?
Why are we silenced?

The humanist thing to do would be for the TRA to listen to our concerns and come to a resolution that meets everyone's needs Cough Third Space Cough rather than forcing their will onto us.

Who am I to invalidate someone else's emotions? If they feel it, it must be true to them.

Woman is not an 'emotion'. The definition of woman is not 'a man who feels like a woman'. Why don't you ask any of the millions of women over history who have suffered purely on the basis of their biological bodies if 'woman' is just a feeling?

No I will not call someone with the penis they were born with 'she'. It's biology. On the other hand I would not be deliberately rude.

Nothing stopping you going through the process of becoming a clinical psychologist....except the time it takes to qualify and the expense involved and whether others who knew you before will accept the change.

Clearly the issue for many is the self identification law...but if you are aware that transwomen are also being chucked under the bus then why are you no longer an ally, given that the transactivist/agp/sexual assaulters are the minority?

I always used to use 'she' to describe a trans woman. I still do for people like Miranda Yardley, who accepts she is not actually a female and works hard to continue to protect female rights.

I will not use 'she' to describe a male bodied person who punches a 60 year old woman in the face or someone who breaks into a teenage girls bedroom and wanks into their knickers. The 'correct pronoun' here is 'he'.

I will not use 'they' for a male bodied adult who often likes wearing dresses, enjoys dressing as a 15 year old girl for Halloween, and who makes a big song and dance about how the should be allowed to use whatever sex segregated changing room he chooses because he is 'non-binary'. The correct pronoun here is 'he'.

As for male bodied people who campaign to get women chucked out of the Labour Party, male bodied people who look at a website documenting the murder of women by their male partners and say that the website demonises men or male bodied people who write that being catcalled, treated like a piece of meat and grabbed by the throat during sex whilst crying is totally hot and that that is what women really like. I can't bring myself to call them 'she' so out of politeness I will just call them by the actual name rather than using any pronoun.

*For me it is quite simple.

If you are a M-F trans and have had surgery to have your penis removed and had reconstructive surgery to be a women, then IMO you are a woman and I will use the word "she" and all other female pronouns. Also vice versa for F-M.

If you still have a penis then you are a "he"*

that’s @BanyanTree people. they will be doing knicker inspections to make sure everyone’s following the rules.

it’s sad and sickening that posters here are so triumphantly hateful about transgender people.

Any bets on OP coming back?

Thought not.

I have no problem at all with transsexuals - they are not women though.

I absolutely would support anything that helps transsexuals to just live their lives happily, but not at the expense of women.

Self-ID is offensive nonsense, and pushing drugs & gender conformity on those under 18 is child abuse.
These are the the things I have issue with.

I do not hate or resent trans people & I am not 'phobic' about them at all.
I couldn't give a stuff if a bloke wants to wear a dress & lipstick & push the boundaries of 'being a man' - women have been doing the opposite for years after all.
I do however reject the notion that performing a narrow concept of gender magically morphs a person into the opposite sex.

misgendering is hardly the crime of the century. As an old lesbian (a real one not a man with a lady dick) with short grey hair I get called sir sometimes in shops. Big fucking deal! Gender isn't even a thing.

so, @joystir59 if you were stopped at the door to the ladies loo in a pub or a department store and asked to show your vagina to prove you were using the right toilet, would you mind that?

Any bets on OP coming back?

Erm, they asked MN’s stance on this. MN gave their stance on it.

Why would they come back?

Honestly does anyone honestly believe that removing external sex organs, having silicone implants and feminisation surgery makes a woman?

That wearing make-up or growing your hair makes you a woman?

That loving cats, romantic movies and giggling makes you a woman?

You can do all these but if you're male, then you're male.

Why is that so terrible?

I'm sure that when women first struck out against the regulations we had on never wearing trousers, never cutting our hair, never receiving an education etc. it was hard. I'm sure that it was really fucking hard.

But they did that, they did it as women. They didn't claim they were men they widened the bandwidth of what being a woman was.

Why can't men do the same? I think it's too hard. Why fight when you can steal?

It's preposterous that we even have this arguement. Why we have to justify and defend who we are.

We are women, get your own fucking space.

If OP only wanted MNHQ's stance they could have asked that in a PM.

Posting on the boards invites a discussion and it's only fair to expect OP to come back and join in.

Hanging you can have sympathy for Rachel but would you call her black, and tell other black people that they should respect her identity? Should she be allowed to participate in scholarships/events etc designed for increasing participation of black people in organisations or public life? Or represent black people as their designated officer?

Chardonnay, it was asked in site stuff. All the rest has been said a repeatedly in the very many threads about this subject. Surely there’s not much more to say?

I just though it good manners from OP to come back, to their own thread.

But obviously you disagree, so let's leave it at that.

It has been said before but it's being said by different people, by more people. There's an increasing confidence that's it's okay to say 'Stop, some of this trans stuff makes me feel uncomfortable'

We're learning that it's not transphobic to want to protect women's rights and that deserves to be said much more than once.