Deliberate misgendering - will MN do anything to discourage it?

[SuperDandy]

I've reported a lot of posts lately for deliberate misgendering of individuals, but MN seems not to do anything about it ever.

Pick any thread you like that's relates to transgender in any way, and up pop the deliberate and persistent misgendering posters. It's bullying, and it's transphobic.

I'd really like to know what mn's position is on this.

I think people are missing the point ... anyone who referred to me as a cis woman would be told to fuck off too! It's the sheer venom that people leak when trans issues are mentioned that shocks me.

Trans women who identify as a woman in an attempt to rape, abuse or access other women for nefarious reasons are as much in the minority as the ALF are to animal rights supporters and ISIS are to all Muslim men.

Of course these butch blokes in dresses trying to get into women's prisons shouldn't be referred to as 'she'. If a little common sense was applied then it would be a non issue and they'd be booted back to Strangeways with their tails untaped from between their legs!

Its not helpful telling people they have a phobia, when they don't.
Its not helpful to call women cis to deliberately offend them and minimise their lived biological experience as women.
It's very not helpful to the NHS to pretend that transwomen have periods and can breastfeed, not to mention the ludicrous idea that they should be taking up appointments at ovarian and cervical cancer screening clinics.

“as in the comment above about society being at fault for the disconnect as opposed to the condition.“

Well then this is where we fundamentally disagree. I do not believe that male and female brains are different, so the only cause for the disconnect is external.

But this argument has been bashed out eleventy billion times on here.

I’m not new and I find the rudeness about transpeople downright shocking. Everyone I know is generally accepting of transpeople. I’m on twitter and haven’t seen anything remotely similar but then I don’t tend to look at anything to do with trans. Never been on Reddit.

I totally agree that someone with a penis should not be allowed in women’s spaces and if some women take offence to cis then that shouldn’t be used either however I haven’t seen the same respect to transpeople on here so I tend not to click on threads to do with trans issues as I can’t engage in ‘civilised’ debate and ignore downright transphobic (IMO) comments.

They just don't like ... gender dysphoria being minimised

Nothing minimises gender dysphoria like the plans for self-ID! That is literally what the proposals do - remove the need for a GD diagnosis. Of course once we've all accepted that there's no need for any NHS treatment.

Trans people with GD are losers here, along with women and girls.

MN is the safe space for Sparticans - The mods here will allow the debate to be had and would act quickly if there was abuse from transactivists. Reddit would just let it blow up and Twitter - only the very vocal voice their opinions. Shame that but doxxing/Job/repercussions etc are very real. It does mean often that people stay anonymous in this spot which leads to echo chamber accusations.

I am finding it increasingly difficult to teach 1984 as a dystopian text because it seems to me that we are living it in so many ways. And the insistence that individuals be forced to speak what is so clearly not the scientific truth is one of those ways.

And I am not a cis woman. I am a woman.

I totally agree that someone with a penis should not be allowed in women’s spaces

So you write that in a post in which you declare that everyone you know is generally accepting of transpeople and that you find the rudeness about transpeople downright shocking?

Yes, I would agree that many transwomen are getting thrown under the bus.

Quite, theonlyliving “‘There was truth and there was untruth, and if you clung to the truth even against the whole world, you were not mad”

I’m not cis and to call a man with a penis she, is madness. Word meaning and science have been replaced by feels in all areas of life it seems.

Why should we be forced to call an individual with a penis 'she'? I will generally use preferred pronouns out of politeness but for misogynists who seem to hate women and laugh about their erasure? Not a chance.

The other side of the debate is that it is gas lighting to try to get us to say a lion is tiger, a cup is a plate, and happy is sad.

I will not use she for males but I will use a person's name or initials.

I think the OP needs reminding that the use of cis is also misgendering.

I totally agree that someone with a penis should not be allowed in women’s spaces

They already are.

If self-ID comes in there'll be nothing at all anyone can do to challenge this. I know this discussion can come across as shocking and mean when you first encounter it (the vast majority of us started out about where you are) but you might want to find out what's actually going on.

BTW, there are a few gender critical trans posters on those threads you don't click on. The only people I've seen being disrespectful towards them are those who ignore their posts, shout 'transphobia' and then disappear.

Who am I to invalidate someone else's emotions? If they feel it, it must be true to them. Feels/Feelz is a word I would gladly get rid of, it's so belittling.

Yes gaslighting is exactly what it is. I recently saw an article where a convicted rapist was referred to as 'she' and 'her' all the way through. It must be horrific for his victims to see people colluding with this nonsense when it was his male biology that harmed them so much. But apparently misgendering is a worse crime

So cis...

Yes it’s offensive. As is the idea that gender and sexuality must perfectly align. Why?

Because take me as an example. I am female. I’m not particularly aligned with the stereotypes associated with women. I’m a scientist, I rarely wear stereotypically female clothes, or makeup. I do t really have any connection to this ‘girly girl’ set of behaviours that seem to be pushed on women. And that’s OK, because surely that narrow set of behaviours is bollocks, right? There are women who love dresses and make up and pink, and that’s fine. There are women with shaved heads who live in jeans and biker boots and that’s fine too. Neither of them is more or less female because of their behaviours.

But this idea of cis almost forces us to accept the narrow gender norms. So now girls who like a shaven head and a chemistry set are suddenly abnormal and may be men? Fuck that. And boys who like dressing up and don’t identofy with he trucks and guns shit that’s pushed on boys - they’re abnormal too? They must be girls? Well fuck that as well. It’s reinforcin all the awful sexual stereotypes we’ve been trying to tear down for years.

If I, as a woman, do not fit a narrow set of ‘what a woman should look like/do/feel’ then the answer is that that band of behaviours is too restrictive, NOT that I’m a man.

And that is why cis is offensive. Why can’t we tell our children that they just are who they are, liking what they like? Why do we have to pigeonhole them I to sharply defined pink and blue boxes? It seems so wrong.

Who am I to invalidate someone else's emotions? If they feel it, it must be true to them
Lots of things are “true to them” doesn’t mean they should force the rest of the world to go along with their emotions.

But @FabulouslyGlamorousFerret

Of course these butch blokes in dresses trying to get into women's prisons shouldn't be referred to as 'she'.

What people are objecting to is that if self ID comes in, then all those men will have to do is sign a form to be legally a woman and therefore can be considered for the move. Of course, there are always exceptions, any woman prisoners (I think there's only a handful, 5 or less) considered exceptionally dangerous are currently in segregated areas in men's prisons because there are no suitable facilities for that in women's prisons. But trans women have already been moved out of women's prisons for inappropriate sexual behaviour.

Ireland is often held up as a new ideal for trans people, but there you cannot move prison if you legally change your gender. The laws are different.

Men are men, women are women. It's simple biology. I won't be forced to lie.

I think there's a lot of MH issues behind the surge in 'self I.d.'

Since when do emotions trump all? Shall we indulge Rachel Dolezal with the pretence that she is black so we don't hurt her feelings?

I did feel sorry for her, yes. I am aware that empathy for Rachel, who clearly had issues and encroached on black women's rights, will be a minority view.

sympathy for/empathy with takes self to grammar pedants

For me it is quite simple.

If you are a M-F trans and have had surgery to have your penis removed and had reconstructive surgery to be a women, then IMO you are a woman and I will use the word "she" and all other female pronouns. Also vice versa for F-M.

If you still have a penis then you are a "he".

We have always been at war with Eastasia.