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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

MNHQ here with an update on our recent moderation decisions

306 replies

KateMumsnet · 09/08/2017 13:44

Hi all

We thought we should come and address some of your recent points about our moderation, and particularly the worries you have about whether MNers have been taken in by a troll over the last few months, and how MNHQ has handled the issue.

Lots of you have probably missed our previous posts, so the plan is to bring everything together in one place and explain why we’ve been pretty firm about shutting down speculation on this case. We missed an opportunity to do so earlier and it’s led to lots of confusion - we’re very sorry about that, and we want to put it right now as far as we can.

So this is where we’re at: we don't have any evidence to suggest that a fraud has taken place, or that any MNers have been conned. As far as we can tell – and we have looked as carefully as we’ll ever be able to – the poster in question is the person he says he is: the father of a little boy whose mother has just died.

As we’ve said before, we can’t be 100% certain of anyone’s real life identity - it's simply not within our capabilities to know whether the person we’ve spoken to on the phone and via email and who’s been posting on the board is the same as the person of the same name and circumstances who exists elsewhere on the internet. What we do know is that we haven’t seen anything to suggest that money that kind Mumsnetters have donated has been misappropriated or misused - if we had, we would of course have involved the police.

Because MNers are understandably worried and upset, the idea has taken hold that wrongdoing has taken place. But, to be completely clear and to the best of our knowledge - it hasn’t. If you have evidence to the contrary, please get in touch with us immediately.

There have been deletions all over the shop on this - we know this must be incredibly frustrating and that loads of you still have questions and worries that you want to discuss. But we hope you’ll understand that we just can’t allow speculation or conjecture: the consequences if we do are too dreadful, for the family concerned on the one hand, but also for MNers, who are legally responsible for things they say on the boards which turn out to be unfounded.

Two posters have said on the board that they’ve received messages, off Mumsnet, which they felt were inappropriate and worrying - one of these posters reported this direct to MNHQ. We’ve been back to her, of course, but she's now told us definitively that she does not want to pursue it further and has de-regged. The conversation she describes did not take place on MN, and so there’s nowhere further that we can take that, unfortunately. We’ve of course been through the PMs on the account in question and there is nothing there that we’d characterise as harassment of any kind.

Despite all this, we suspended that individual’s account a few days ago, simply because we felt that his continued presence on MN was unlikely to do him, or MNers, any good.

We do see why the existence, for example, of a JustGiving board got people’s hackles up - but again, that’s quite a different thing from actual fraud of which we have zero evidence (and once again, please do bear in mind how serious an issue that would be, and that MNers are responsible for their own posts.)

What we really, really don’t want to do is to shut down discussion about the principles of the matter and our policies on this and other things - and when JustineMumsnet gets back from her break we’ll of course be debriefing her on the many points you’ve made (both on current and deleted threads, which we’ve been through with a fine tooth comb).

One thing that we’ve already done is to change our policy on links to crowdfunding/fundraising sites unless they benefit a registered charity - we agree that moving one of the threads in question to the Charities Noticeboard was a miss-step and that definitely won’t happen again.

We’re also looking really hard at what we say on the boards to reassure users who are worried about a potential troll - in retrospect, we shouldn’t have said that we’d gone above and beyond in checking this case out, because that implies that we can definitively validate any identity, and we can’t.

We really do want to hear what you think, and we listen hard to things that are pissing MNers off - recent examples are the changes underway on usernames1234 and the removal of the T-bar ad on mobile. We consistently turn down more ads than we take. We don’t and never ever will take money from tabloids for our content. We still put purpose before profit, and that’s not going to change - it's why a lot of the MN team have chosen to work at MN Towers. We do have to be sustainable - we’d all be out of a job otherwise - but it’s really worth having a look at the other place if you haven’t recently, to see what really chasing commercial gains looks like: it’s intrusive ads and a lot of sleb gossip.

We hope this helps to clarify our position a bit; do please do put your general thoughts here on this thread - we’ll be listening and we’ll try to help clarify anything that we haven’t covered here. Please do take on board what we’ve said about conjecture though - we’ll have to delete speculative posts if we see them here or if they’re reported on other threads.

Thanks

MNHQ

OP posts:
HighAlert · 09/08/2017 23:23

MN is over moderated now. It's very sanitised. Suits the advertisers better I expect.

HighAlert · 09/08/2017 23:25

Bet you are on there having a nosy all the time though Grin

whereismyparachute · 09/08/2017 23:26

I thought that, all reading it then coming here to say how awful it is Grin

DixieNormas · 09/08/2017 23:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PandorasXbox · 09/08/2017 23:29

I bet everyone has been having a nosey at it even HQ Grin

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 09/08/2017 23:31

Bet you are on there having a nosy all the time though

I naively thought there might be some interesting discussion about identifying trolls and MNs moderation policies etc. I didn't expect to find a circle jerk filled with bitchiness and really nasty personal attacks about posters who were not there to defend themselves.

I won't be going back.

PortiaCastis · 09/08/2017 23:32

I just looked and can see other posters names on there, bit off isn't it

Lynnm63 · 09/08/2017 23:40

I don't imagine their crying into their prosecco at you not going back to Reddit Pandora.

Lynnm63 · 09/08/2017 23:41

*They're before I get called out on my grammar!

Tottyandmarchpane1 · 10/08/2017 03:02

Am finding this highly amusing - of course MN isn't going to implode. There are plenty of us who get and give good advice that don't get aereated and stomp off to another site just because we are long term posters and don't get our own way. I think MN have been really balanced and some posters need a serious grip. Leave the site if you don't like it, there are many other posters to fill the gap.

Tottyandmarchpane1 · 10/08/2017 05:38

Just looked at some of the posts on Reddit - jeez what a nasty bunch. I doubt MN will miss.

DixieNormas · 10/08/2017 06:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed · 10/08/2017 06:19

Just to bring this back to the point

Csn I also ask if staff could look at the insistence from staff that they hadn't done something which those of us on the threads could clearly remember they had done.

As someone else said, staff should probably discuss what was said both in the words and subliminally what was the message you gave out when you posted that comment on the thread.

EllieQ · 10/08/2017 06:28

Subliminally?

Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed · 10/08/2017 06:33

With the use of the phrase above and beyond to verify.

Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed · 10/08/2017 06:39

And the fawning nature of the deletion messages.

AgathaRaisonDetra · 10/08/2017 06:50

You spin me right round Baby right round like a record Baby right round yeah 🎶🎶🎶🎶🎵

Can we change the record, please?

MrsSchadenfreude · 10/08/2017 06:52

While I'm here, please could you take another look at the fostering thread that appears in fostering, aibu and chat, which I and others have reported, and the similarity in style to the Zeebrugge troll?

exWifebeginsat40 · 10/08/2017 06:59

picketspockets:

This place is a joke. You do realise that the companies who advertise on here are probably watching this play out? You are really not doing yourselves any favours by being so dismissive of us.

uh-huh. a klaxon went off at Unilever hq or somewhere, and the emergency protocol for People Getting Upset on the Internet has been triggered.

come on now. does this not seem unlikely?

this is not anyone's safe space. mumsnet is a lot more than Talk, and a lerfuffle of this magnitude wouldn't even blip the radar. they rely on reports. they don't read every post on every thread in case an internet argument breaks out. they keep reminding you of that.

gosh.

exWifebeginsat40 · 10/08/2017 07:01

that's kerfuffle, not lerfuffle which is of course the french translation.

Firefries · 10/08/2017 07:16

This has all been very interesting thank you MNHQ for responding as you have. It's a great start. I followed that thread and was unsure about it, and I have to say if I spot anything out there like that in the future I'm going to just say so. No troll hunting, just suggesting caution. I think that's fair (even if I'm wrong).

PassiveAggressiveFloofiness · 10/08/2017 07:41

"Good luck for the future. I hear McDonalds is actually not suc a bad place to work. Probs be a good idea to dig out your Modding for Dummies pdq, because if I was Justine I'd be reeeeally pissed off with how this has all been handled"

Fuck me, how rude is this?! Don't people realise that saying stuff like this makes them look like a right arrogant twat and completely lose any moral high ground they think they might have?

PandorasXbox · 10/08/2017 07:47

Say something on the thread you mean Firefries? I understand why you would think about doing that but I can't see MNHQ letting such things stand however vague your concerns were.

I would like to be able to say that something doesn't feel right or question something that's been said when it doesn't add up without being accused or troll hunting, the post deleted or even threats of being banned.

PandorasXbox · 10/08/2017 07:49

Totty my implode comment was about the MNtroll group on Reddit.

PassiveAggressiveFloofiness · 10/08/2017 08:13

I looked at Redditt once and couldn't understand it as I'm over 40 It sounds like it might be worth giving it another try at the moment though Grin

Pandora I think it's fair enough to...errr...question inconsistencies on threads if you do it in a genuine tone of voice, if that makes sense? I mean along the lines of "but in your last post you said you a two week old baby but now you're saying you climbed Everest/shagged Tom Hardy three weeks ago?" rather than the kneejerk "god you're obviously making all this up you hairy handed fuckwit" which we all would just prefer to say Grin

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