Please can we have a Trans topic?

[LooseSeal]

The trans debate seems to be devouring the boards at the moment. It's spread across feminism, chat and AIBU and it's often not clear from a thread title that it's going to be another trans thread.

Considering that trans threads are accumulating in numbers and attract hundreds of posts and posters I think it's time trans was given its own topic.

Ah.. there it is... the feminist board trope.. because someone doesn't agree with you, they need educating.

and you wonder why people are sick of you all?

Judy - you show me how - no, PROVE to me how

transwomen are more violent than women

does not follow from

men are more violent than women

(we are talking about populations of course - any attempt by you to make it about specific individual people would really show your desperation)

So if I post in Aibu that a transperson was using a disabled toilet and I couldn't get in and pissed myself, would that be moved to feminism or SN?

Thanks WW. I thought I must have posted it in a different language since Judy failed to grasp it.

Good to know that people are sick of all feminists too. I'd hate to feel singled out.

Hi all,

Thanks for the feedback.

For the time being, we're not planning on having a separate Trans topic. We have concerns it would turn into a bit of a free-for-all, and in any case, we really don't want to restrict discussion to one place on the site.

Thanks Katherine. Not the first time this request has been made and probably won't be the last!

Brilliant, thanks Katherine

Thanks Katherine

Thanks Katherine

I'm not sure anyone's done a study on the violence rate of trans women. Or of trans men. (There would be some problems with setting up such a study, such as forming a large enough sample size.)

I'm not sure anyone's done a study on the violence rate of trans women. Or of trans men. (There would be some problems with setting up such a study, such as forming a large enough sample size.)

I think there was a cohort study done in Sweden of all the tw in the country that showed no different in violent offending behaviour between tw and men. Afaik, the tm had higher rates of violent crime than women (born women). I'm sure someone will link to it soon

Thanks Katherine. Btw my post saying "cunts" and "bitchploppers" was referring to Maddy's lovely post calling posters here nasty things like that (including those exact words) while pearl clutching about "offensive" gender critical posting. Nice that some dimwit reported my post but not hers.

It already is a free for all, across all areas of the boards. Mumsnet is now the transphobic parenting site.

From the government's report-it site:
"What is harassment?

Harassment is any unwelcome comments (written or spoken) or conduct which:

violates an individual's dignity; and/or
creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment.

Harassment can take many forms including violence, threats, abuse, and damage to property. It can involve verbal abuse and name calling, offensive graffiti or post and can be received via text message, emails or social networking sites like Facebook or MySpace.

It may cause physical injury, mental stress, anxiety, or insecurity. It can also occur for a variety of reasons, including race, religious belief, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability.

Harassment is a criminal offence. If you are being harassed, report it. "

So, does calling a trans woman "he" violate an individual's dignity? Yup.

Would a trans person be intimidated on here? Yup.

Mumsnet allows harassment that is illegal.

As I said earlier, the default assumption should be that until there is evidence proving a subset of men are any less violent than men as a class overall, they aren't. We do generally require evidence for these kind of claims.

What about gaslighting and intimidating women? What about letting men into female safe spaces? Trans or otherwise? Where do you stand on that?

What about "die in a fire TERF" and "choke on my lady stick" and all the attendant nasty shit that SOME transactivists direct towards women who dare to politely question them?
Now that's harassment and actually pretty terrifying. Do you really think I'd be comfortable using my real name on here and having my usual email linked to my account? No, I fucking would not!

But you're a man, aren't you, so I'm sure you can't wait to mansplain it all to us. Harassment of women is illegal. Misogyny is in breach of sex as a protected characteristic in the Equality Act. Funnily enough no one gives a fuck about that, on mumsnet or anywhere else.

Laura, the onus is on people making an extraordinary claim to prove their case. Not the other way round.

Would a trans person be intimidated on here? Yup.

The question is though why would they feel intimidated?

Nobody should feel intimidated by personal abuse. As far as I am aware mumsnet has a very clear talk policy and all topics are moderated.

However, if somebody feels intimidated by an idea, for instance the idea that gender is a social construct, not a concrete fact and that sex can't be changed, is the idea wrong?

Sometimes the interests of two groups are in conflict - does that mean that they shouldn't be able to talk for fear of causing offense?

I don't think that Mumsnet has any interest in breaking the law. However, the issue of 'misgendering' should be discussed. When you call somebody 'he' or 'she' purely on the basis of self identification, you are making a statement about language. It should be possible to discuss this without deliberately offending individuals, but it should also be possible to have a discussion and that may sometimes upset people.

Sometimes free speech causes people to be upset, and that is not a problem.

because my post was general venus.. obviously if you took my comments personally, perhaps you have something to feel guilty about?

The threads HAVE been full of people making offensive remarks, only coming on to insult people...etc. I never once said it was you or anyone else personally posting on this thread.. it was meant in general as to the tone of how threads about Trans issues go in general.. and WHY i'm fed up of reading them... they turn into a bloody bunfight every single time.

Perhaps if you spent less time getting defensive and trying to shut people down who disagree with you, you might have a more pleasant debate.

I don't feel "guilty" Maddy. Why on earth would I? It's just your rather silly opinion. The irony was you claiming that other people were being offensive when you were far more so.

I don't feel "guilty" Maddy. Why on earth would I? It's just your rather silly opinion. The irony was you claiming that other people were being offensive when you were far more so.