Please can we have a Trans topic?

[LooseSeal]

The trans debate seems to be devouring the boards at the moment. It's spread across feminism, chat and AIBU and it's often not clear from a thread title that it's going to be another trans thread.

Considering that trans threads are accumulating in numbers and attract hundreds of posts and posters I think it's time trans was given its own topic.

Apologies for double posting, it's a bad connection. Do you genuinely think it's at all pleasant, helpful or constructive to call people "cunts" and "bitchploppers" (in a general context, of course) and say they're not intelligent?

In the context, I think the post calling other posters cunts is quite illuminating and I wouldn't want it to be deleted.

again, why are you taking it personally when i wasn't referring to you?

I'm not taking the post personally, but I am struggling to understand the point of it.

How am I supposed to know, as a person posting from a gender critical perspective on trans threads, whether or not it refers to me? If you address it generally, obviously people are going to think it may be aimed at them. And it really was excessively offensive to people expressing their opinions on a discussion board.

After reading a lot of the threads recently, It has made me more supportive of trans people.

I wonder what MNHQ think about their site getting a reputation for bring transphobic, I'm not agreeing that it is, but it is getting that reputation.

I'm happy if it's getting a reputation as a place where women are free to discuss the issues which concern them freely without censorship on spurious grounds.

I wonder what MNHQ think about their site getting a reputation for bring transphobic, I'm not agreeing that it is, but it is getting that reputation.

Presumably they would look at the evidence.

Mumsnet also has a reputation for being a nest of vipers and a bunch of silly women. They haven't shut up shop yet, presumably because they disagree.

It's the double standards that get to me.

Lesbians are transphobic if they don't want to have sex with a transwoman who has a penis because they're 'gendering genitals' and see a penis as a male organ.

Yet it's OK for transwomen to have their penis removed because they see it as a male organ.

Lol at bitchploppers. Is that the standard of the pro-gender side of the debate?

I didnt read the original quote from maddys post

I think i stopped half way through

But i am curious as to what a bitchplopper is

Wtf is a bitchplopper?!

I learnt quite a lot on here about the so-called 'trans' issues. I was quite supportive before but now I'm a sceptic

Whether that makes me trans phobic I don't really care I see what I see with my own eyes and make my own mind up.

Ok, without the language, my point (if made rather harshly) was this

The reason why i wish we had a Trans section on the board is that the same thing is being said over and over again.

While the same thing is being said over and over again, on every single thread, the few that DO manage to be enlightening and educational and good debate, invariably end up being turned into a bunfight by posters coming on to them and ruining them.

The ruin them either with repeated obvious stubborn transphobia which gets repeatedly deleted leaving the thread like a nice slice of swiss cheese, or by people with an agenda (transactivists, mansplainers, and other sundry trolls) who grandstand, me-rail and 'bitch plop'.

I also dislike the air of the feminist posters (The few who do this, and its a long running issue with the feminism board and has been since long before the board was last re-jigged in the 'ghandi was a cunt' debacle) is the habit of going on like they're more educated, or that their opinion is more valid and shutting down everyone else.

Of Course Trans issues need discussing, but it is NOT the most important topic in the world, any more than Feminism is, and if Feminism has its own board, when this is MUMSNET, then why can't Trans issues?

We're not even saying EVERY trans thread needs to be over there, it doesn't, not every feminism thread is, like not every SN thread is in its section.. but it would be NICE if there was an area where general discussion and debate could happen, so that there was a go-to 'home' for the subject in general.. even if its a new sub board in Feminism!

I apologise if my way of putting that over offended any one, but i really am tired of every other thread being about Trans stuff right now, its not attracting the right kind of people to MN and its getting us a reputation for being Transphobic, which the majority of people are not!

I don't know what a bitchplopper is. Maybe bitchplopper is the new terf? Or Spartacus?

X post re bitchploppery

'violates an individual's dignity; and/or
creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment.'

That's exactly what feminists are trying to prevent (though the stable door has already been blown off its hinges). The TA agenda and removal of sex-segregated spaces (refuges, prisons, changing rooms...) is creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for women. In real life, not just on an internet forum.

But it's not like every other thread is about trans issues. That is a huge exaggeration. And personally I don't want it to be confined to a special topic, because I think it's critical to raise awareness and these threads do that and posters have testified to this. Because I think this is a massive threat to women and to feminism, the worst in a long time. So I guess we'll have to agree to differ.

rufus its a phrase i picked up on another forum that was used to describe a troll who only came on to insult people and then left again. Usually only 1 or 2 posts before they disappeared, rather than a sustained effort of being a nuisance... kind of like a seagull shitting from a great height ;)

While the same thing is being said over and over again, on every single thread, the few that DO manage to be enlightening and educational and good debate, invariably end up being turned into a bunfight by posters coming on to them and ruining them.

That isn't my experience. I am a little bemused at the idea that MN is completely flooded by trans threads, but that it is possible to read them all, and that people who don't want to read them do actually read them all.

the habit of going on like they're more educated, or that their opinion is more valid and shutting down everyone else.

So make a better argument and explain why they are wrong.

and if Feminism has its own board, when this is MUMSNET, then why can't Trans issues?

Gender issues are feminist issues.

I agree that pretty much all threads about gender issues are one sided, but that is because of the lack of a rational opposing argument. If it exists, it would really be helpful if somebody could explain what it is.

Aaah i see

Thanks maddy

Aaaahh, I see...

So the many "omg, what a bunch of bigots, people like you make me ashamed to post here" kind of posts are "bitchplopping". Well, you learn something new every day!!

beyond

I do like to learn new things

To expect little comment about the wholesale redefinition of the term for those humans with the ability to give birth (medical difficulties notwithstanding) on a site called mumsnet is a little perplexing.

And to then wish that those comments are hived off into one section as if they are a niche concern is baffling.

Trans threads (of which there are few in terms of the threads started, although prominent because they are on Active for quite a while) are largely not about individuals, although perhaps initiated because of a news story about an individual. The threads themselves are about the bigger picture. If those with an opposing viewpoint want to post their points, they are at liberty to do so. But just like with the anti FWR battles of a few years ago, some posters have plenty of energy and ideas to share against posters, but seemingly wilt when invited to counter the points made on topic.

Piss or get off the pot I. E post on the thread or hide it.