I Would Like To Propose A Solution To The Trans Threads Problem

[DioneTheDiabolist]

Dear MNHQ, I am pissed off with all the Trans threads. I understand that you don't wish to stifle debate/free speech and all that shit, so I propose 4 threads where all trans posts can be hidden go.

A Fuck Trans thread. For posters who hate that people are trans.
A Yay Trans thread. For posters who wish to support trans people.
A Trans Bunfight Club thread. For posters on the other two threads who want to have a bit of a ruck.
And a What MNHQ Have To Say About Trans Threads thread. For, well I think you get my drift.

All other trans posts on the site can be deleted, no other threads can be started and I can enjoy the site more.

Then perhaps feminism isn't for them, if they can't bring themselves to come across dissenting views on a subject which many people feel is of key importance to women.

Its always nice to reference the whole quote

Why don't you start threads about what you want FWR to talk about, paxillin? Including more "inclusive" ones? Rather than pointlessly snipe at people who do bother to express their feminist views and hide the entire board?

Thank you Rufus!

I used to, venus, under a different name. Threads get around 5-18 responses unless they are trans threads, then they run into the 100s. Which is one of the reasons I think I'm not alone in having it hidden because it is so trans-centred.

But that is just how it is. You can't make people post on threads that don't interest them. What exactly do you think should be done about it?

because the fact that most of the human race's sexuality leads them to think along the lines of (2) when confronted with an unexpected vulva or penis when they were expecting the opposite is precisely why actually the whole idea that transwomen are women in every important sense of the word is such an obvious crock of shit

The fact that the majority of people would react along the lines of (2) demonstrates that the majority of people are orientated towards a single reproductive type of human. Even if when talking generally it is easy to be "cisnormative" and just declare oneself to be attracted to "men" or "women".

Not sure why it tells us anything about transmen/women not being men/women.

Though perhaps next up for redefinition might be the words homosexual and heterosexual. Or at least rather than saying that one is attracted to "men" or "women", then leaving themselves open to queries about why they would then exclude a subgroup of men/women as potential partners, they could say that their sexual orientation is towards biologically male or female people.

No doubt a minority would still demonstrate their own lack of understanding of sexuality by acting as if people "ought" to find whomever sexually attractive as if this is the sort of thing one can make oneself do. But you are always going to get idiots at the extremes.

No Pax, I have now hidden it also.
Gender pay gap
Rape on college campuses
Nate Parker
DV
But no, trans remains the issue of the day.
Am now hiding site stuff too.
The each chambers can remain echo chambers and good luck to them.

Of course you can't make people post on threads that don't interest them.

I just wonder if a lot of feminists have FWR hidden because it has morphed into "trans issues". Therefore any non trans thread attracts few replies. This in turn makes even more people hide it.

So maybe OP's request for a trans topic is redundant, because we have a trans topic, it's called feminism chat.

Why are you so offended that other women have concerns about the trans agenda? It's really not all about you.

Yes, Venus, you're absolutely right to say that most commercial so-called feminist sites have now been gutted of critical thought on the matter. Feministing and Everyday Feminism are packed full of "cis" and "transphobia" mentions. They've swallowed the trans agenda whole. Not a feminist thought among them. As soon as I see that X is "centring transwomen in their feminism" I translate that as "X wants to please men".

If you doubt the ugly truth that MtTs are constantly trying to bully and coerce lesbians into "lesbian" relationships with their "lady sticks", Paxillin, check this out. N.B. doesn't work well on the phone, lots of screenshots. Or watch all those cotton ceiling videos on Youtube. It's not like MtTs are even embarrassed about doing this shit.

It's everywhere, and young lesbians are under siege - both from MtTs and also from pressure to become men themselves. And if you don't care, that's fine. No obligation. But I would wonder why you'd call yourself a feminist.

I am not offended, just exasperated. I am however offended at having my feminist credentials questioned whenever I say something on a trans thread.

I know it is different on other sites, but on MN feminists who do not agree that this is the most important issue in the women's rights movement are being silenced quite effectively. Worse still, they are told they are not actually feminists.

I know it is different on other sites

That's an understatement. You are not being silenced, you are perfectly free to disagree with any of these points. You can't silence the views you don't like though, unlike on those wonderful "inclusive" sites. Still, of course that's not as important as people having a personal opinion that some of your views aren't particularly feminist.

But I wonder why you would call yourself a feminist

Because there is a whole world of feminism outside of the trans-fixated of the internet. In fact, there is even feminism beyond the internet. Really.

I used to, venus, under a different name. Threads get around 5-18 responses unless they are trans threads, then they run into the 100s.

This is so true. There is no feminism on MN anymore, just outrage about Trans people on social media. All that site that Prawn is linking to is just screenshots of social media. That's it. That's what passes for feminist activism these days.

The feminist board is not mainly trans rights. I am however laughing at the irony of some posters on here suggesting we should keep trans stuff to one board, like women's rights, and others bitching about how they've had to hide women's rights because of all the trans threads.
It amazes me how many feminists post here who don't post in the feminism section and comment how we are doing it all wrong.

This is an online site. What is she supposed to link to, a set of meeting minutes from Feminism Inc AGM?

The screenshots are targeted at young lesbians. Social media is massively important to the demographic affected. Me - I could care less, but then I'm not 19.

Magdalen Bern has been no-platformed and ostracized from student LGBT politics for saying that there's no such thing as a lesbian with a penis. The no-platforming and censorship were in the real world, not on social media. You might watch her .

Saying that people can't change sex is enough to lose you all your friends in some circles. You see it a lot on tumblr and reddit - young women confiding their gender critical thoughts, scared to say anything publicly because being branded a TERF is social death. And they're the ones being bullied into sex with men, sex they don't want.

And then, of course, there's the transing of children and young adults. The explosion in numbers and the total recklessness of health professionals is deeply concerning. It's not a specifically feminist issue. It's a potential concern for all parents.

What you don't seem to appreciate, paxilla - which is fair enough if you don't give a shit - is that criticism of the trans is silenced in forums all over the internet. Places where you can say "Paris Lees is male" are becoming very few and far between. And most feminist sites are all too happy to conciliate the trans who are so much more oppressed than we ordinary women.

But it's way more than just the internet. Women's sports have caved in - men can now compete if they're on hormones, and our own government is working on various bits of trans-friendly legislation. Kids are being given off-label hormones and mutilating surgery.

So, yes, paxilla - a lot of us think it's a bit of an emergency, that we must fight back before it becomes illegal to point out that a transwoman isn't actually female. We are being erased, and I think it's extremely important. On a brighter note, about 1,000 MN posters agree, so I guess we'll cope without you.

IPity, first you say 'cotton ceiling' is just one workshop a few years ago attended by 7 transwomen, then concede that Paris Lees might have said something but who cares what they think, now you've been shown evidence that the concept is still current and support for it is rather more widespread, you say it's just screenshots of social media. That's it.

This whole recent flurry of trans threads came about because of a deleted thread about the actions of Ada J Wells, recently resigned LGBT+ officer at Edinburgh uni:

Ada, who is trans and prefers to be called “they”, labelled women with vaginas as “cuntscum”, has also called women who refuse to have sex with gender-neutral people with a penis – like Ada – transphobes, and has advocated for them to be expelled from the University of Edinburgh.

This is not just a bunch of tweets and facebook froth it's affecting the real lives of lesbian women - it's doing them harm. Can you imagine being 18 years old, away from home for the first time, tentatively coming out as lesbian because uni is the first environment you've come across where it even looks like it might be safe to do so, only to be met with this from the officer of the very organisation that is supposed to be there to support you?

Not everybody is affected to the same extent by trans issues in their everyday real life. It depends on your sexuality, where you live, what sort of job you do / where you study, where your DC go to school, which services you need to access, the people you mix with, your family ... I can see how people might think this is all just some weird internet spat if they haven't come across it in real life - I mean, it's almost unbelievable, isn't it?

I don't know why people say this is niche feminism. I just posted on the other thread about my child's university that assures access to single sex facilities by male transwomen without any surgery, hormones or physical transition. So that's all the female students at that university who could be alone in a ladies loo late at night with a man. Or two men, or three men, who all say they're women. How is that niche? That's thousands of women.

Not just loos either, changing rooms too. Gah. How is this allowed?

I don't know why people say this is niche feminism

It suits their agenda to pretend that only big old TERFs think this way. To claim that they are the reasonable ones.

This is so true. There is no feminism on MN anymore, just outrage about Trans people on social media.

Just for info on the feminism board at the moment are lengthy threads about whether Porn can ever be ethical (300 posts), deprogramming out patriarchal norms (300 posts), family annihilation in Ireland (200 posts), whether we need women only gyms (100 posts), whether anyone's is to blame for men who don't do housework (100 posts), the fact rape was legal in marriage until 1991 (40 posts but only a couple of hours old).
But yep, no feminism to see here.

Hex, I wasn't "aiming" anything at you! IIRC, you asked where else you could talk about your thoughts on trans people. Subsequently other posters talked of such sites.

I asked them to pass on the details because I remembered that you said you were interested.

Or "directing" even.

Cheers for not patronising me Smashing.

I am not ignorant of Trans issues. I don't care about sites where people talk about how to get other people to want them to have sex with them.

I get that you don't like reductionist language. Me neither. That's why "6'4" bloke in the changing room" and "bearded rapist in a dress" turn me right off. You do seem fond of extrapolation though.

I am glad you took the time to re-read my OP and understand it better.

Ok Dione, thank you.