I Would Like To Propose A Solution To The Trans Threads Problem

[DioneTheDiabolist]

Dear MNHQ, I am pissed off with all the Trans threads. I understand that you don't wish to stifle debate/free speech and all that shit, so I propose 4 threads where all trans posts can be hidden go.

A Fuck Trans thread. For posters who hate that people are trans.
A Yay Trans thread. For posters who wish to support trans people.
A Trans Bunfight Club thread. For posters on the other two threads who want to have a bit of a ruck.
And a What MNHQ Have To Say About Trans Threads thread. For, well I think you get my drift.

All other trans posts on the site can be deleted, no other threads can be started and I can enjoy the site more.

I am a feminist. I have FWR hidden now because "some transactivist has called women/ a part of their anatomy something despicable on reddit/ Twitter" are the common FWR threads on Active at the moment.

I'd rather hide a trans topic than FWR. The effort to raise awareness of this one issue might hinder raising awareness of other feminist issues.

Dione and Rufus - forgive my slowness, but why is that directed at me?

And I should care what Paris Lees thinks, because?
Did someone die and make her queen of all transwomen? Yet, you all seem to hang on her every word and statement more than trans people do.

Also far as "Plenty of trans bloggers and trans allies agree with the logic and concept".
Plenty of trans bloggers isn't a quantifiable statement, is it?

And as far as logic and concept precisely no one (sensible) is saying it's about forcing lesbians to have sex with trans women.

This is the widely used definition:
"The cotton ceiling is a theory proposed by trans porn star and activist Drew DeVeaux to explain the experiences queer trans women have with simultaneous social inclusion and sexual exclusion within the broader queer women's communities".

To explain the experiences. So as Dion said upthread, "people talking about other people not being into them".

All this time and energy being spent on whispers around the internet. It's tragic.

Cotton ceiling is a theory.

It isn't just one meeting that happened years ago.

The point is that you were talking utter bollocks, IPity. It seems you've googled a bit now. That's good.

I have FWR hidden now because "some transactivist has called women/ a part of their anatomy something despicable on reddit/ Twitter" are the common FWR threads on Active at the moment.

Your choice. Or do you think people should run FWR threads past you first?

hex

So sorry i didnt even think about you being annoyed or upset by that

It just struck me as being a funny passive aggressive comment

I sincerely apologise

IPity even if one were to concede your claim that the cotton ceiling is a political issue rather than a personal one (which I don't: I have read enough first person accounts by trans activists to know that they want to pester lesbians into having sex with them) it is still problematic.

Excuse me if I cast this in terms of MTT because I'm heterosexual. Suppose the younger me, aged about 30, is clubbing and starts to make out with a good looking, if rather slender and androgynous looking bloke. We go home together. It gets to the point of taking trousers and pants off. I am confronted with a vulva. Is my reaction:

1. that's of no more relevance than the issue of finding a penis which might or might not be circumcised - genitals come in all sorts of external appearances;

2. Hell no, that's not what I signed up for here;

3. Oh god, my instinctive reaction is no, but that makes me a transphobe, oh god I'm a bad person?

My feeling is a tiny minority might genuinely feel (1). Well over 90% of us would feel (2). Even understood as a political claim rather than a personal one, the cotton ceiling rhetoric is a concerted attempt at social engineer designed to try to gas light as many women as possible in that 90% plus into feeling (3) rather than (2).

So even understood as a political claim, it's still fucking offensive. (And it also shows why trans activists are so keen on the idea - because the fact that most of the human race's sexuality leads them to think along the lines of (2) when confronted with an unexpected vulva or penis when they were expecting the opposite is precisely why actually the whole idea that transwomen are women in every important sense of the word is such an obvious crock of shit - the emperor really has no clothes on).

Of course I don't think FWR should run threads past me, venusinscorpio. I was just pointing out that people might just turn off the whole topic because of this one issue.

Your patronising response to someone who does not think this is the No 1 issue is unnecessary.

Venus - Not really. I've pointed out that the most substantial action linked to the Cotton Ceiling is an event attended by 7 people 4 years ago and that it is just people talking about their experiences in general.

Not this big scary thing that people are making it out to be.

It's used to call lesbians transphobic and transmisogynist because some of them will have a drink and a dance and a laugh with transwomen but they won't suck their dicks or let transwomen penetrate them. This makes lesbians haterz and it is really unfair, bigoted and phobic. It makes lesbians hypocrites because some of them are willing to call transwomen "she" (this is called politeness) but they refuse to have sex with them (this is called having the right not to have unwanted sex AKA rape).

It's a concept and one that is discussed as though it were as legitimate as the concept of the glass ceiling. Except one is about dick sucking and fucking and the other is about equal pay for equal work and equal opportunities in the workplace.

You couldn't make it up. Although having said that it is just another version of the assaults and insults made on lesbian sexuality such as the concept of corrective rape, etc.

But I get that plenty posters here couldn't give a shit about it. I believe that people don't care. I take them at their word on that. They seem pretty pleased about the fact that they don't care in fact so I'm hardly likely to doubt them.

Venus - I think your desperation to see "rapey logic" says an awful lot about you.

It's just the same as seeing evil trans lurkers in women's toilets and all that stuff.

I was just pointing out that people might just turn off the whole topic because of this one issue.

Then perhaps feminism isn't for them, if they can't bring themselves to come across dissenting views on a subject which many people feel is of key importance to women.

I think your desperation to see "rapey logic" says an awful lot about you.

Does it really? I'm a rape survivor and a feminist who finds it offensive. What does your view say about you, I wonder?

They seem pretty pleased about the fact that they don't care

Yes. They are so proud of themselves. It's so impressive that they don't give a fuck. I'd congratulate them, but they're doing a better job of that themselves.

Then perhaps feminism isn't for them - this is getting more patronising with each post. I am a feminist.

Feminism is just as much for me as for you, venusinscorpio. You don't get to define who feminism is for. I resent that feminism on MN is slowly being reduced to discussing outrageous things some TRA said on a blog or reddit. It makes it less relevant and less inclusive.

Venus - I think your desperation to see "rapey logic" says an awful lot about you.

Desperation? What other way could the entire cotton ceiling concept be described as besides 'rapey'? I didn't even know anything about this term until last week when I saw it mentioned on a thread on here and I find the entire thing revolting. Also on said thread, a few transwomen confirmed that among people they know/speak to its not as rare as people would like to think..the whole 'oh you are transphobic for not wanting to fuck me' rhetoric.

I don't think anyone thinks all transwomen are monsters. Quite the opposite if you read any threads about the matter..but these 'blokes in frocks' (I wont apologize for that as that is EXACTLY what they are) are making an issue where there doesn't really need to be one. They are relying on the 'transphobia' thing sticking and as such they get their way..be that access to vulnerable women in changing rooms, or having an excuse to fuck lesbians. Blokes on a power trip are now included under the trans-umbrella. It is not about genuine transsexuals. The main issue is people apparently being able to just say 'I am woman' and be treat exactly that way. And no, this is not just hyperbole, though I would like to believe it was. Its actually happening..

Anyway this is obviously not a discussion thread given the topic, so I will bow out now. But honestly..I was all 'trans people should be able to do whatever they wish' until last week...when I found out that 'trans' no longer means what I thought, which was people who feel they are trapped in the wrong body, and have surgeries and such to correct this.

There are rather a lot of 'cotton ceiling' examples on this page.

I resent that feminism on MN is slowly being reduced to discussing outrageous things some TRA said on a blog or reddit. It makes it less relevant and less inclusive.

The point is that it's not just about your views. I resent the fact that on many other mainstream sites feminism is all about "centring transwomen". It makes it less inclusive (of actual women and their issues) and a fuckload less relevant.

You're the one who's hidden the entire FWR board as it's not talking about what you want it to, paxillin. How is that a reasonable response? As I said. It is your choice to do that.

Telling women that "perhaps feminism isn't for them" will quickly make sure only yes-women appear on the threads.

pax - I agree.

It makes it less relevant and less inclusive.

Actually......I joined up not that long ago and whenot looking through the topics I saw the femminism one and immediately thought "oh FFS a whole fucking section on femminism fuck that shite"

Then I read one of the transaction threads that came up on the active topics, then another, and another. And from someone who was 'live and let live and give them the same rights as real women' I became Spartacus.

Any woman, and even more so femminist, who stands up for and denies the normalisation strategy in place by the transfer activists are a bigger threat to women in general that the trans women who are pushing the agency of hate against women. You know those ones born XX and who are called 'cis cuntscum' by real women.........🙄

The point is that people can't expect their views to be pandered to at the expense of others. You are free to start whatever thread you like. I don't agree with the views of many of the people on this thread, but they have a perfect right to express them and I'm happy to engage with them.