TransAgenda BullShit: The I am Spartacus Thread

[OscarDeLaYenta]

Post deleted by MNHQ as it broke our Talk Guidelines

Thanks Portia for responding, and I agree with your point. Just seen suicide used to shut down debate too many times .

I am not calling trans people men - they are trans people. They may be born women, who become trans men - or they may be born men who become transwomen - but a man cannot really become a woman. That does not change anyone's value as a person or the contribution they can make to the world.

If you're still reading the thread, LGBTEXEC, I've responded to you on www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/2716917-This-is-bullshit-Thread-2?pg=1&order=.

Well be advised that I am a recovering addict and have attempted suicide myself.

pacific dogwood. I Agree too. I cannot advocate for any movement that may encourage any kind of hate crime, I also struggle to come to terms with legislating over people's identities.

I used to think like you and I find it abhorrent that anyone's self expression or identity being curbed or limited might result in their suicide or self harm.

I don't claim to know about gender politics much and o don't claim to really understand the issues of how it impedes women's right, but I know it does and I'm seeking to understand that.

I am certain for sure though that transsexuals are not simply people born in the wrong body and that hormone treatment and surgeries can sort it.

One only has to explore the masculinities and femininities that are adopted and learned by transsexuals.

I have know a 33 year old transman pass himself off as 24 and date a 16 year old girl.

I have know a trans activist who has shaped legislation, received money for research - and run workshops to help young transman get to grip with their sexuality. These workshops include bdsm and 'needle play'

I have known another Trqnsactivists who is so absolutely misogynistic and has adopted a discourse thst is extremely opressive against women, language like bitches and ho's etc.

These are sometimes people parodising gender, reinforcing stereotype, using their trans status to abuse.

I do not know how to level it, I do not know what the answer is. I do know the current situation is a 'spectacle' and thAt playing...because that's what it often is....playing .....with fundamentals of biology, society etc is damaging.

Clona

I too am Spartacus.

I have lurked for an age on the Feminist Chat board and have followed many of the trans threads, often nodding in agreement with those speaking the simple logical truth: transwomen are men and transmen are women, there is no such thing as ladybrain and sex is real while gender is a social construct.

I do not wish any harm on the trans community and fully support their right to live in society without the threat of violence and discrimination. BUT sex is what determines whether you're a man or a woman, not feelings. To me gender is a deeply damaging social construct. I will not support those that wish to reinforce the very gender stereotypes women have fought against for years. I will also not support those demanding to have access to women's safe spaces and who seek to redefine what it means to be a woman.

If men want to express themselves in a feminine way that's fine, great, but that does not make them women. If women want to express themselves in a masculine way that's fine, great, but that does not make them men.

Oh, and DO NOT call me cis

for Clonakilty. Reason enough to fight to keep women only spaces and protect the language which describes our biology and how it may shape our lives.

I am Spartacus. I am an adult, human female; a woman. Never a cis woman - which is dismissive Newspeak.

Sex is not assigned at birth, it's not a shift at Tescos, it's biology. Men cannot become women, women cannot become men. Gender is a construct; dependent on geography, religion, culture, history, product designers and advertising agencies.

A woman does not have a penis. A lesbian does not have a penis. Children should not need to be medicated to align their personalities with their bodies (which take a long time to develop and get used to!!) Adult men and women should be allowed to modify their bodies and express their personalities, but not at the expense of women's hard-won rights.

Millions of girls and women have their genitals modified without their consent, are denied an education because their biological functions are perceived as unclean, have their sexual autonomy denied and commodified. Millions more don't survive their sex being described in utero.

I really appreciate being able to read all of the Spartacus's declarations, there's a lot to reflect on. XX

Regarding suicide,

There is no actual data to support trans people actually commit suicide more than anyone else.

We only know that men 45-59 do commit suicide at the highest rate, aside from Bangladeshi women I think.

No Ego, that isn't what this thread is at all. It is unfair to describe this as is "having a go at trans people". It is women standing up for our rights, which are being rapidly eroded in ways that are utterly terrifying to any female who is willing to imagine following this path to its logical conclusion. This thread and its format is only necessary because our voices have been drowned out and our rights utterly disregarded for so long. I am sorry that your life is hard. I am sorry that you feel excluded. But women's lives are hard too, and we have a right to stand up for ourselves and not be silenced when we talk about our own material reality as biological women.

I will not be shamed, guilt-tripped or manipulated into silence. I am still Spartacus.

Ego147 has left the building and has said she will not be troubling another thread so there is no point debating her points.

Anyway, can I just say I am Spartacus? I forgot to do that the first time I posted

100% ferret

I am sorry if there are men who wish so fervently that they are not men that they will go to such lengths to rid themselves of any trace of masculinity or maleness, including that which is part of their physical bodies. That must be bloody hard.

BUT. It is not the problem of feminism to sort out. It is not a problem for women to accommodate and take on. And I am damned if I am going to be forced to use the pronoun she for such a person or told that I must agree that such a person is a woman, and as much of a woman as I am. I am damned if I am going to be forced to refer to my 'front hole' and refer to myself as a 'uterus-bearer' to accommodate these other 'women' so that their claims to womanhood are validated as much as my own. AND DON'T ANYONE FUCKING DARE EVER CALL ME CIS.

I am still Spartacus and this is an uprising.

YY Oscar. I am Spartacus.

Lets do a poll
Who has attempted suicide
Who has had their stomach washed out
Who has had a bastard husband break their arm and punch their face
Who became addicted go benzedrines

Answer me and im fucking angry.really fucking angry at being accused of shutting down debate through suicide.

I accept the apology but I am a prime example of male violence.
I am upset.
My Mother paid for me to go to rehab or I wouldn't be here and people bang on about fucking pronouns and want to be known as they.
We all have issues and when you've had your arm broken in front of your small child. he she they don't mean shit
I said I'd shut up but why should I. It's comfy sitting at a keypad typing but think before you do !

Portia I hope you don't mean me regarding that - I was NOT referring to you with my comment.

Please Portia can you come to the other thread. People can't properly respond to you here

Portia

Portia , I'm sorry for what you have been through. I can see why you feel angry.

It's a sad and distressing fact though, that TRAs use suicide as a way to constantly shut down debate in order to silence women's protests to trans ideology. It makes me angry that they do it too. It all to often clouds discussion, and is an appalling thing to do.In fact I've seen TRAs say to someone that their opinions "murder" trans people because it causes them to commit suicide. So I imagine that's why people are on top of it on this thread, and don't want to perpetuate an abuse that TRAs use. All part of the damage they are doing to women like us, and you.

Sorry....I'm still spartacus..... I'll repost that on t'other thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/2716595-TransAgenda-BullShit-The-I-am-Spartacus-Thread

Disregard the link its a mistake

I'm spartacus.
My female body is not an identity I chose to put on.
My bastarding periods are not a choice. My third degree tears in childbirth and resultant issues were not a choice. Being sexually assaulted, groped and catcalled was not a choice. Being paid less than my male colleagues is not a choice.
The women who suffer FGM did not choose it. The girls who are selectively aborted or killed at birth did not choose it. The girls who aren't educated because they are too embarrassed to go to school with their period did not choose it. The women gang raped and murdered in India for daring to be out along did not choose it.
Identifying as a man wouldn't change these things for any of us. Being female is not an identity.

I am Oscarandellie
I am gender critical. Facts need to trump feelings. I am not a bigot but the trans agenda is deeply mysogonistic and homophobic and needs standing up to.

I am the best house mouse of them all and I agree with every woman who has stated quite clearly that her female biology matters.

This is why abortion rights are always under attack. Female bodies are policed and controlled by patriarchy from BIRTH.

A male who puts on a dress at 15 yrs old has NO CLUE what being a female human being is about. He is not a SHE and never will be.

Ban me. It just shows you have no coherent argument to make and you love to silence women.

Portia