TransAgenda BullShit: The I am Spartacus Thread

[OscarDeLaYenta]

Post deleted by MNHQ as it broke our Talk Guidelines

Silly phone that should be sparticus sorry for any offence I don't know why my phone used that

The Spartacus-Woosters would like to register our presence and our agreement with OP.

Perhaps if that person had had the right mental health treatment, rather than feeling they needed to surgically alter their body, they might still be with us. Maybe not. But please don't use suicide to shut people down

Or maybe there could be better understanding of trans people like that rather than people telling them they are wrong, labelling them as men, dismissing the real need to have surgery and acknowledging that there are some trans people who do have a great deal of mental distress, suffer loads of discrimination, do have a very high suicide rate, a very high self harm rate and just want to get on with their lives without worrying that people will abuse them verbally, call them men, make lives for their family much much harder etc.

I'm not trying to shut anyone down just saying the person i worked with didn't push an agenda. I hate the term cis and trans this that or the other. Im sorry if I came across as using suicide to shut anyone down, that wasn't my intention.
I wanted to show my colleague didn't say she was a woman when she wasn't. She had the courage to change when it seems that many don't
Anyway I'll shut up as I've no wish to offend

Ego
I think it's clear that the women on this thread do not want to make trans people's lives difficult. Quite the opposite in fact and many have said that would actively support their right to live safe, happy, healthy lives, as would I. But not at the expense of women's safety and freedom. Or scientific truths. It's really that simple.

Agree Ibelieve

I have no intention of belittling the struggle of a man who feels utterly uncomfortable in his body....
But it is naive to fail to recognise that the struggle to help people in that situation has been hijacked by men with quite a different agenda.

I have no intention of belittling the struggle of a man who feels utterly uncomfortable in his body

You just did.

No one wants to make your life harder ego. Do you acknowledge the concerns of people here about the erosion of women's rights by trans ideology?

How did she do that ego and how can she avoid it?

Do you acknowledge the concerns of people here about the erosion of women's rights by trans ideology

Yes. I get it. I have always got it.

Thank you Oscar and Olenna
I no longer feel I'm in the minority. Phew

I got what you meant, I think suicide is just a tricky issue to mention because it is often used to shut down debate on trans issues. The problem is that it's very unhelpful to do so - I think that many, many trans people probably have some form of mental health issue and that blaming the world for not recognising them as the person they wish to be is simplistic. My understanding is that suicide rates remain very high even post op- it is not a magic bullet. Because I think most people who do have surgery probably still ultimately realise, at some point, that they are still not the person they hope to be and that trying to become the opposite sexes and be totally recognised as such is not really achievable. Some will come to terms with that but some won't and blaming everyone else isn't helpful.

This is not a thread for discussion. Use the other thread in Site stuff.

I am still Spartacus, I love Mumsnet and all it's collective female knowledge - and silliness - but I'm ready to be banned if we can't point out that autogynephilia exists and that it's harmful to trans young children.

Give us some ideas as to how we can challenge it in a way that doesn't belittle your struggle then. Can we take this to the bullshit thread, this isn't a discussion thread.

How did she do that ego and how can she avoid it

Well - that gets to the nub of the thread, doesn't it?

Using 'he' - it's possible to use 'their' rather than 'he'.

I have no intention of belittling the struggle of a man who feels utterly uncomfortable in his body

Or

I have no intention of belittling the struggle of someone who feels utterly uncomfortable in their body

At least the last sentence isn't likely to cause great upset. It removes a point of conflict.

But - that's the whole thread, isn't it?

Suicide rates are high for women who have been sexually abused/assaulted too. But clearly there's no merit in comparing trauma as a means to make a point

This is not a thread for discussion. Use the other thread in Site stuff

Isn't it? I forgot - it's a thread to call trans people men, isn't it? No discussion. Just calling out well known trans people as men and not discussing it.

As you were. Keep on having a go at trans people.

Repeating request to take this to the bullshit thread.

Can we do this on the other "bullshit" thread in site stuff? I will respond to your post there.

I am Godstopper.

I am a gay woman.

I am not CIS. I am simply a woman.

There is no such thing as a female penis anymore than there is a round square: it does not exist. Not wanting to have a sexual encounter with one does not make one transphobic (and notice how the outcry comes from men and not transmen claiming that gay men are transphobic for not wanting to have a sexual encounter with a male vagina).

I support equal rights for transpeople, and we must fight discrimination where we find it. But that does not involve erasing my own identity in the process.

Can we do this on the other "bullshit" thread in site stuff? I will respond to your post there

I've hidden that thread because there are some posters on there who I do not want to talk to and whose posts I feel really really uncomfortable reading.

But I will leave this thread - but with the hope that things get better. I do agree that the 'trans agenda' and saying 'I feel like a woman' has gone too far - but there are some trans people who really struggle, who just want to blend in, get on with their lives and get really concerned that a lot of the anti trans rhetoric can have a negative effect on us and our children's lives/

Ego147
I am happy to debate and listen to you on the other thread....don't want to derail what's here

I hear you and believe you Clona

I am sorry that you went through that.

Yes Ego, that is what this thread is for - it's for women who want to stand and be counted against a damaging and dangerous ideology.

The same posters are on both threads.

Apologies for responding earlier folks, but I feel that the use of suicide as an argument to try and stop women expressing their views needs to be challenged.