TransAgenda BullShit: The I am Spartacus Thread

[OscarDeLaYenta]

Post deleted by MNHQ as it broke our Talk Guidelines

Sex is biological

Gender is biological.

Neither are a social construct

Gender is merely the experience of being one or other of the sexes. It therefore makes absolutely no sense to say that sex is biological but gender is not. I'm a woman, and a mother, and feminine BECAUSE I was born female. No one forced me to be feminine, no one forced me want to be a mother, no one forced me to enjoy cooking meals for my family, I just do.

'The patriarchy' is a myth dreamed up by misandrists.

I have nothing to add.

MNHQ, if you do nothing else please read glosswitch's post upthread. Don't collude in the abuse of women by men.

I am Venusinscorpio.

A man cannot become a woman, he has no way of knowing what being a woman feels like so has no reference point within his own feelings. He can only know he does not feel like a man.

A woman cannot become a man in exactly the same way.

I will not stand by and see women's hard won rights trampled over in the rush to pander to a small minority of misogynistic, entitled male transactivists. I will support genuine sufferers of gender dysphoria and the gender non conforming to feel comfortable and safe, within reason. But not at the expense of making women uncomfortable and unsafe. That is not a reasonable thing to ask of women and we need to say no very clearly.

I am Spartacus.

The “misgendering is violence” mantra insists that calling your attacker “he” is worse than anything he is doing to you.

No it doesn't.

The two are separate things entirely.

It's like with any other issue, you can recognise that someone is a contemptible person whilst still acknowledging that they have rights as a person.

MNHQ: You need to decide which utterances make more sense to you, linguistically and politically:

A man committed rape with his penis.
A woman committed rape with her penis.
A man committed rape with her penis.

What works best for you?

Only the first is linguistically coherent and accurately conveys information.

And to reiterate what I said on the first BS thread started by Death, you have to make an across the board decision. If you are to insist that MTT are to be referred to be their pronouns of choice, then whoever they are, whatever they have done is immaterial to that decision. You cannot withhold self-determination of pronouns from some but not others. So, yes, a woman will commit rape with her penis.

This is not about being polite and respectful. It is about fundamental questions of ontology, empirical reality and linguistic coherence.

(Sorry - broke own rule of no discussion on this thread!!)

I am Sabistick. i am Spartacus. I have been on MN with different names almost since the start.

I believe sex is constant, and cannot be redefined by gender.
I believe womens needs are systematically being undermined and we are in danger of losing the benefits gained through women's suffrage.

Well said Glosswitch!

I am Essel.

I am a gender critical feminist.

I do not believe in 'girl brains'.

I believe that we are all 'non binary' so the term is meaningless and a woman is just an adult, human, female.

I am Gertrude

Gender is a social construct. People can conform, or not conform to it as they wish (within the bounds of the law). However, teaching children that there is right and a wrong way to be for their biological sex and that they can "change sex" by taking puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones is wrong.

A man cannot become a woman, no matter what he does to himself (including medical and surgical procedures he may undergo), and no matter how he chooses to present himself (including his manner of dress, hairstyle, 'mannerisms', name and preferred pronouns).
Equally, a woman cannot become a man, no matter what she does to herself.

I support a person’s right to live with an identity that is other than their biological sex, without abuse or harassment or discrimination.
However, if you were born male, you should not have the right to enter safe spaces for women; if you were born female, you should not have the right to enter male-only spaces. The word “woman” should not be redefined to mean “anyone who thinks they are a woman” (nor “man” as “anyone who feels they are a man”). There should be no curb on using female biological/gynaecological terms (vagina, vulva, breast-feeding, periods, mother etc) without it being deemed offensive/harmful/exclusionary.

Biology is fact. I am a biological woman, not an identity to be performed. I am not cis.

I believe in compassion and acceptance. But not to the detriment of women, their rights and their safety, or the freedom of children and young people to express their personalities as they wish without being "transed".

If you don't believe in feminism or that women experience any sort of oppression as a result of their biology then maybe start a thread about that elsewhere rather than derailing this one please.

Azhrei, while I accept your experience, please don't presume to know about others'.

The patriarchy is alive and well.
Gender IS a social construct.
Sex is not.

Elsa - I think that there is a range of support on here. I, for one, will not refuse to call a transperson by their gender pronoun of choice in most cases because it's impolite and hurtful. It won't change their biology, and actually I think that the blog post linked to by Miranda (written by her partner Helen) is very poignant in that respect. transavant.tumblr.com/post/132016557177/trans-women-are-women-is-a-lie-that-is-as

I will refuse to call a transwoman a woman though. I will also refuse to accept their right to enter all women-only spaces.

But if they want to be called "she" or "they" or "zhe" or "xhe" or whatever - then ok. It's no skin off my nose to do that.

As I said on the other thread, I used to know a girl at school who is now a transman (old style full transsexual - had the surgery etc) - I'm happy to refer to him as "he" and wouldn't call him by what I've learnt is known as his "deadname" (the one before transition). Because that would be rude.

But these men who want to keep all their bits and still call themselves "woman" just because they feel like it? No. I can't reconcile calling them a "she". What I do have to do for myself is find where I draw the line - when I'm ok with calling them "she" and when not.

May I have your attention please, MNHQ :

"The next thing will be protests against MNetters discussing menstruation or childbirth because "not all women have wombs"."

This sort of thing is already starting to happen on MN. See the post below from this thread where a male called Trashbox berates women for daring to talk about motherhood:

Trashbox Fri 26-Aug-16 02:15:50
Disgusting thread. Full of cis-priviled birthing parents!
How do you think it makes the rest of us (those who can't have kids naturally because of our cis-gender) feel?

And in case anyone is in doubt that this is a male with intact male genitalia, check out the post on this thread where Trashbox feels tempted to get a blowjob:

Trashbox Tue 09-Aug-16 04:18:34
£10 for a bj!
I might get one just for the bargain factor!

Oh dear. I was so hoping that it was a joke....not a serious comment

Cote, have you reported him?

I am Bekksy

I acknowledge everyones right to live as they please and be whatever gender they wish to be. I do not believe anyones rights eclipses the rights of others.

I believe in facts. The facts are that men have penises and woman do not. There is not such thing as a female penis or a lady penis anymore that there is a lady brain.

You cannot be a lesbian and have a penis. That simply makes you a heterosexual male.

Your sex is defined by your chromosomes and has nothing to do with how you dress.

I object to the term cis-woman.

If we are to be banned for stating facts and standing up for the rights of woman then shame on you MN. Shame on you for cowering to the demands of this ridiculous notion. Shame on you for not standing up for the rights of woman, 50% of the population, who have to fight to be heard.

Stop being scared and take the power you have amassed and the backing of your millions of users and empower woman. You have the power and yet you are choosing to further a culture that puts men above woman.

These are the men you are protecting...
Davina Ayrton is male and raped a child with his penis
Tara Hudson is male and he does not belong in a women's prison
Stephonknee is male and his fetishistic behaviour is dangerous and disturbing
Ada Wells is male and his agenda reeks of male privilege and misogyny, homophobia and antisemitism

I am Spartacus

I am Nevermindatall but I mind about this.

I am Spartacus, and I stand with you all

Violet - this thread is filled with a lot of thoughtful, detailed, well argued and logical analysis by hundreds of women. I would happily debate with you (though not on this thread) your position, but at present you are not articulating any position, just calling us names - ignorant, goady and vile. As such I believe YOUR post contravenes talk guidelines and will be reporting it.

Pacific - No, not reported. I'd rather those posts stay so people can see for themselves what is around the corner for MN.

I took screenshots in case they do get deleted.

Just to let people know I have now replied to all queries regarding the FB group so check your in boxes .

Anyone else interested, please do send me a PM.

I am Squedgie. I mostly lurk on these threads, learning a lot but not posting as I do not have my opinions fully formed yet. I'm still exploring the issues.
What I do know though, is that sex is not changeable. All the hormones and surgery in the world cannot change your chromosomes. Chromosomes determine sex throughout the living world - not just humans.
A woman has a vagina and XX chromosomes.
A man has a penis and XY chromosomes.
I believe:
A man with a penis cannot be a woman. A man who has taken hormone therapy and had his penis removed through surgery is a transwoman. Not a woman.
A woman who has had hormone therapy and a penis constructed is a transman, not a man.
A person who chooses to appropriate the typical dress and behaviour of the opposite gender without taking steps to transition remains the sex they were born. What we used to call a cross-dresser.
By allowing men with intact male genitalia and male hormone levels into female spaves, we are setting gender equality back decades, not furthering it.
I worry about the world my DD will grow up in.
I refuse to be called a cis-woman. I am a woman, I do not need an extra label because I happened to be born with a vagina and XX chromosomes.

I'm pretty sure Trashbox is a woman, and the cis comment was a joke.

I am :

gendercriticaldad.blogspot.co.uk/

A bit of a boring middle aged bloke, trying to keep his daughter safe. Shamelessly stealing ideas from Gender Critical Radical Feminism,

Gender is Bullshit.

I am Hambo.

Men cannot become women, ever. Women cannot become men, ever.

Thank you every one on this thread for your intelligence and bravery.

I am the poster previously known as SpecalAgentFreyPie

War has been declared, and I'm done pretending to be politically correct about such a horrifying issue that the media is essentially blacking out.

I am Spartacus.