TransAgenda BullShit: The I am Spartacus Thread

[OscarDeLaYenta]

Post deleted by MNHQ as it broke our Talk Guidelines

I agree Elsa. TAs do not represent the views of the entire trans community. So why do their opinions hold sway over what we can say? Why are we censored if we disagree?
The silencing needs to stop. Hold The Front Page: Someone Disagrees With Me On The Internet - Waaaah! is what I see on here.

I am WhereTheFuck, and I am Spartacus.

I respect the rights of any individual to live and dress as they please, however, that does not include allowing men to invade women only spaces, and erode our rights.

Men cannot become women.
Women cannot become men.
I am a woman, I completely reject the term cis, it is made up bollocks.

Allowing children to transition is abusive.

If I am to be banned from MN for stating these facts, then I'm not sure it's somewhere that I want to be in the first place.

I am HarimadSol. I am a woman. I am she.

Feelings do not create reality.

MN, please don't kid yourselves that you can keep TAs happy by banning posters from telling the truth mis-gendering. That's not how it works with this kind of activism. The more you concede, the more they will demand. The next thing will be protests against MNetters discussing menstruation or childbirth because "not all women have wombs". This has already happened on every feminist page on Facebook so it is not an exaggerated fear. Imagine how many posters you'll be banning once the TAs really get going.

So, aside from trifling considerations like free speech and not allowing women to be bullied by men, you will be making a rod for your own backs.

Elsa, the problem is that it's the anti-woman extremists who are having their voices heard by governments and threatening women. Ada Wells and what happened to Moll's daughter aren't in America. They're here.

Miranda Yardley and Helen Heaton have the guts to stand up and say "Not in my name." If more transpeople did that I think every MNer on this thread would be right behind them.

So why do their opinions hold sway over what we can say?

Personally I think it's because the law isn't clear enough yet. I also think that it would be helpful for feminists and the trans communities to come together instead of battling it out and come up with a solution for everyone.

For example I've seen the idea of trans refuges touted about. I've also seen a lot of 'we had to fight for our rights so they can fight for theirs' touted about too.

If both communities stood up and said that we need trans refuges and helped each other then women's spaces would still be women's spaces and trans people would have their own spaces.

If we just helped each other instead of fighting then a lot more would get done and everyone would be happy (apart from the very extreme people who will never be happy).

Men cannot become women. Women cannot become men. Gender is an oppressive social construct.

It is abusive to tell a non gender conforming child they need to change their body.

I am Sparticus.

I've been following this thread since yesterday when it only had 10 posts. I wasn't brave enough to post then and for that I am sorry. I am a long time lurker and only occasionally post, but I believe this is too important to stay silent on. I am here to stand up and be counted.

I am biscuits.

I believe sex is a biological fact.
Being a man or woman is defined by your genetics not by how you feel.
You may be a 'feminine' man or 'masculine' woman but you are still a man or a woman. You cannot change sex.

People may be offended by this and want to shut down debate, but that does not change objective scientific biological truth.

I am spartacus.

I'd be happy to support trans refuges. Isn't the bigger question whether transwomen would still demand entry to women's refuges?

What Shiny said. Funnily enough, after the Edinburgh uni thread was shut down I actually though, you know, I can see TAs shutting down forums like mn. I'm old enough to remember the struggles of feminists to get their voices heard over men in the 70s and 80s and I'm damned if we are going to be silenced now.

Miranda Yardley and Helen Heaton have the guts to stand up and say "Not in my name." If more transpeople did that I think every MNer on this thread would be right behind them.

I agree. However it's very hard to do that when it becomes a 'them and us' scenario.

I agree with a lot of views on this thread, but I can't add my name to the agreement because of the people who think it's acceptable to not use the pronouns that trans people ask them to.

There has to be some middle ground.

I'd be happy to support trans refuges. Isn't the bigger question whether transwomen would still demand entry to women's refuges?

Some would, no doubt about it. There will always be someone trying to push the boundaries. If we had trans refuges then their views wouldn't hold as much weight as they have a safe space to go to.

I am Cap

I have nicked ovaries post as she put what I want to say so well.
My problem is with the Trans activists. The loud shouting foot stomping misogynists.

I do not support misogynist trans activists, those who cry "death to terfs" because the only way they can deal with differing opinions is to incite violence and aggression.

I do not support hateful, homophobic men in dresses like Ada/Nate.
I do not support anyone who believes in the cotton ceiling.
I do not support anyone who insists on calling me "cis" when they know nothing of how I identify.
I do not support anyone who purports the myths of female = pink and ladybrain and unicorns and polite giggles while man = monster trucks and beer.
I do not support anyone who would suggest to me, as a "tomboy", or my daughter if she grows up to be one, that we are actually trans and should become men.

Gender is a social construct. To be progressive, we must dismantle it and all the harmful connotations that come with it. The trans movement only solidifies these gender constructs, insisting that the rest of us must bow to this pigeonholing of "you like this so you must be a boy, not a girl" - and yet if we call for progress, we are painted as conservative, backwards homophobes.

When will the world wake up and realise we are moving further away from progression and acceptance every time the trans agenda feels they've taken a step forward?

I'm also still sad and angry MN have banned posters for calling a vile bullying man, a man.

I am Calmit and I echo the majority on here. Ada Wells, Kaitlyn Jenner, Danielle Muscato et al are particularly unpleasant blokes no matter what they say or wear.

Go ahead and ban me. I waste far too much time on here anyway.

MNHQ is a joke. More bothered about upsetting "women" than upsetting women.

I would love a bit of middle ground Elsa, and I agree that trans-specific facilities are the way forward if trans people cannot use the facilities for their sex.

But to have that there must be a working definition of what transgender actually means, which is what TRAs are working to dismantle.

They are pushing for any objective criteria to be removed, so there is literally no difference between a man and a transwoman, but to make it a hate crime to point out that there is a pretty obvious difference between that transwoman and a woman.

The TRAs have the ear of the media, the government, lgbt orgs and most feminist orgs. The ball is in the TRAs' court.

I won't call a tranwoman she. I won't call a transwoman he either unless that it the person's preferred pronoun. I would use the person's chosen name. If I called a transwoman she that would be lying every time I used that pronoun. I can't do it. I don't believe that a biological man is a she. I'll happily discuss make up, frocks and whatever else but using she would be like someone ordering me to believe the world is flat because they say it is when I know and science knows is isn't. I'll use a pronoun that's neutral if that's possible - if one is invented - but I won't use she because it's a lie.

I've said this elsewhere, but recently people have started asking if I think my four year old boy (who has long hair but wears 'boys clothes', he likes frozen, princesses, superheroes and cars. He likely has asd like me) is trans.

He is just a regular child, with regular varied interests, but people have decided already that he is really a girl. At FOUR.

I'm ChocChoc - I use pronouns based on sex because gender is a harmful construct which damages me and my family.

Men can not be women, women can not be men, anyone can wear whatever the hell they like.

Penises over the age of about 8 do not belong in women's changing rooms (and even then, family changing would be better)

But to have that there must be a working definition of what transgender actually means, which is what TRAs are working to dismantle.

This is the first thing that needs to be sorted.

This is what we should all be pushing for. The voices of the majority of the feminist community and the majority of the trans community should be working to drown out the voices of the extremes on both sides.

I wish it would happen, but I fear it will not.

StatisticallyChallenged this is so well put and I agree completely

"We need to be able to identify what a woman is and what a man is in order to protect women, their opportunities, their safe spaces and their choices. A person who has been born with a penis, and in the vast majority of cases still has that penis, is not the same as a born woman. I support their right to live however they wish but that does not mean that I need to believe they are a woman. They are a gender non confirming male, a feminine male, a male who has possibly had feminisation surgery. A trans woman if that is the title they prefer. But they are not a woman and have no right to demand that women accept them as such, whether in to our safe spaces, our sports or our vaginas."

My line has always been transwomen who have gone through an active and serious transition consisting of at least living full time as women, being referred to a gender identity clinic and having the full intention of taking hormones are living as women and though I know they are male and hope they know that too I would out of respect for their struggle with gender dysphasia and empathy as fellow humans refer to them as she.

But this is not enough, I'm actually a bigot now because a) I won't believe they are actually women and b) I won't put a space between trans and women/woman to denote that trans women are just a subset of women like short women or tall women. This is peak trans and it can fuck off. Like other posters have said, give an inch and they demand a mile.

I'm now expected to treat both trans and woman/man as something anyone can wear as an identity, accept that suggesting a person undergo some form of medical transition to be trans is oppressive of me (wtf!), and accept all and any identified as male at birth (yes I said identified not assigned!!!) person as a complete woman identical to me because they say that is what they feel regardless of how they act, how they have been raised, how they look and are perceived and treated by the world. It's just ridiculous and those claiming it is unkind or heartless of women to not play along with this farce are playing on our socialisation which has always taught us to put others first and they're doing that consciously.

I think many, possibly most, would use a person's preferred pronouns face to face when talking to a trans person. But I don't want to be compelled to do so especially when, right now, trans is such a broad and meaningless term.I'm not comfortable with the concept that I should be compelled to call a male bodied person who has raped a female, she. I don't want the law to compel me to do that just because they say so.

So all those accusing us of being vile/bigoted/ignorant etc, do you really think these two people are women? And you'd be comfortable with them sharing women's spaces? Furthermore, can you explain precisely what "feeling" like a woman is, without descending into gender-based stereotypes?

My daughter believed she was a rabbit when she was four.

Wouldn't talk, only twitched her nose. Wore bunny ears in her hair. Hopped all the way to school on her first day and would only answer to "Blossom".

At no point did anyone suggest she might be trans-species.

But, had she been expressing a desire to be a boy....well, it's chilling what would happen to her now.

I, too am Spartacus.

Women in jail should not be in a cell with a person with many convictions of violence who has a 7" penis that she uses in her sex work. Women need women only spaces because about 1:4 of us have been sexually assaulted.

Tara Hudson changed my mind on this bullshit.

Trans people have my sympathies and I want them to be equal and safe in our society. But, I'll be fucking damned if I'll accept "Birthing parent" as acceptable language in a maternity unit. If you are having a baby you are female.

Fucking bollocks.

I am Alpaca. By and large I prefer my dogs to people. This doesn't mean I am a dog.

I respect the right of any person to do and say whatever they like, so long as it doesn't interfere with any other person's safety, happiness or wellbeing. It's not rocket science!