TransAgenda BullShit: The I am Spartacus Thread

[OscarDeLaYenta]

Post deleted by MNHQ as it broke our Talk Guidelines

I am Spartacus. People can't change sex and gender is made-up. Ada Wells is a man, Danielle Moscato is a man, Caitlyn Jenner is a man. And so on.

I am Cockblocktopus.

I want to weep when my 5 year old DD says she cant do ballet because that's girls thugs and she likes boys things like Star Wars. No matter what I have taught or shown her.

Gender is a social construct.
Sex is changeless.

The hardest part of being a women is not choosing what dress to wear.

I am terrified. I agree with the message of this thread.

I think you're all disgusting, homophobic vile bigots.

As a lesbian that is personally offensive. Whilst I have no issue with Trans people, these are Trans issues and nothing to do with homosexuality.

It is because of ignorant, uninformed statements like this that make my life harder than it needs to be.

I am 404.

I believe anybody should be able to express their identity and define themselves any way they want.

But I have female biology. I have had uniquely female experiences, including gendered violence, female puberty, menstruation, pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding, gynaecological cancer and menopause, and I will not be told how to define my identity as a woman by someone who has experienced none of these things.

What 404 said.

Women need to safeguard their safe places.

There is no such thing as a female penis.

But I will be polite and use the pronoun of preference of a transperson.

I don't envy MNHQ in all of this. It's horrible to be called a bigot but I agree with the sentiment on this thread. I am Sparticus

XX - woman
XY - Man

Present how the fuck you want but if you have the XY you will NEVER be a woman. And while we're at it, fuck off with your cis, too.

Also, what almost every other poster has said.

I am Morris.

A man cannot become a woman. A woman cannot become a man.

I am one of the many, many people who have lurked and learnt much from the Feminist boards.
I am one of the many, many people who have had my eyes opened by the discussions on the feminist boards to the erosion and eradication of women's rights through the trans movement.
Mumsnet is one of the few mainstream and easily accessed places where people could discuss these issues.
I think it is both sad and terrifying that these discussions are being shut down.
I will not be silenced and stand back to watch as the rights that so many brave and wonderful women (like the real amazing Ada Wells) fought so hard to gain for women like me and my daughters.

Chromosomes do not necesarily indicate sex.

Xy can be female, in cases like androgen insensitive syndrome. Females are not always xx- turners syndrome. Then there's xxy..

Not intersex conditions. AIS will present as female, with female external genitalia, and is usually not diagnosed until puberty.

But yes, you have a penis, you are not a woman. You cannot change your biology.

I am user. I am a woman. I am not an identity to be worn. I am a person, female by biology only. I am a woman, a woman is not a man with his penis chopped off.

what an unpleasant thread.

If some one wants to be called they I will call them they because I respect their feelings. Language is not static, it changes. we have no gender neutral singular pronoun other than it (which is an object) I see no reason why they cannot be appropriated for the job. Fwiw if someone wanted to be called her royal highness (From another thread) just I would call them that. Does not harm to me.

Gender may be binary, but how you feel about gender I think can have many shades of grey in between.

But then I'm at a loss why we still have men and women toilets anyway. Bash them into one and the whole thing would be fairer (and easier for those of us with SN kids of the opposite gender.)

As someone not persecuted for my conception of my own gender I've no idea why I would identify with a slave leader.... or feel the need to do so to get at an actual minority.

I am Bifflepants. You cannot change sex. I don't believe you can be born in the wrong body. Transing children is a form of child abuse.

Why is it an unpleasent thread Toffee can you explain why a group of people stating biological fact is unpleasent?

But then I'm at a loss why we still have men and women toilets anyway

I am concerned that you do not know the answer to this question. I hope the reason is because you have never experienced sexual assult so have no understanding of why female spaces need to be protected.

Sex is biology
Gender is a social construct

Behave/dress how you like but males cannot become women and females cannot become men.

I will also refer to people as he/she/they depending on how they want me to.

And even if I didn't agree with that, I would likely lose my job for trying to make some kind of point by referring to someone as not their preferred pronoun.

I am Ovaries.

I have trans friends. I call them by their pronoun. I consider them to be their chosen sex. I support them.

I do not support misogynist trans activists, those who cry "death to terfs" because the only way they can deal with differing opinions is to incite violence and aggression.

I do not support hateful, homophobic men in dresses like Ada/Nate.
I do not support anyone who believes in the cotton ceiling.
I do not support anyone who insists on calling me "cis" when they know nothing of how I identify.

I do not support anyone who purports the myths of female = pink and ladybrain and unicorns and polite giggles while man = monster trucks and beer.
I do not support anyone who would suggest to me, as a "tomboy", or my daughter if she grows up to be one, that we are actually trans and should become men.

Gender is a social construct. To be progressive, we must dismantle it and all the harmful connotations that come with it. The trans movement only solidifies these gender constructs, insisting that the rest of us must bow to this pigeonholing of "you like this so you must be a boy, not a girl" - and yet if we call for progress, we are painted as conservative, backwards homophobes.

When will the world wake up and realise we are moving further away from progression and acceptance every time the trans agenda feels they've taken a step forward?

Toffee toilets are easily solved - make them all single-user, self-contained and unisex. But that's not what TRAs are pushing for.

What about prisons, rape crisis centres, hospital wards? Should we just knock them all together too?

I'm not bothered about anyone screeching 'bigot' who would also call me 'cis'

:waves hand dismissively:

I am Spartacus.

Words have meanings and words matter very much.

Penises are male appendages.
Women birth babies.
Women menstruate.
Gender is a socially constructed concept.
Sex is a biological fact.
Healthy babies are not 'assigned' a sex at birth.

"The purpose of Newspeak was not only to provide a medium of expression for the world-view and mental habits proper to the devotees of IngSoc, but to make all other modes of thought impossible. It was intended that when Newspeak had been adopted once and for all and Oldspeak forgotten, a heretical thought that is, a thought diverging from the principles of IngSoc should be literally unthinkable, a least so far as thought is dependent on words. Its vocabulary was so constructed as to give exact and often very subtle expression to every meaning that a Party member could properly wish to express, while excluding all other meaning and also the possibility of arriving at them by indirect methods. This was done partly by the invention of new words, but chiefly by eliminating undesirable words and stripping such words as remained of unorthodox meanings, and so far as possible of all secondary meaning whatever. To give a single example, the word free still existed in Newspeak, but could only be used in such statements as "The dog is free from lice" or "This field is free from weeds." It could not be used in its old sense of "politically free" or "intellectually free," since political and intellectual freedom no longer existed even as concepts, and were therefore of necessity nameless."
Orwell

I am Doobigetta. I am a woman, because I was born with a vagina. I grew up female, in a world where being female restricts your opportunities because of the perceptions of others. I share this with all other women.
I have sex with men. I wear female, feminine clothes. I have long hair, remove my body hair and wear make-up. I like pink. I cry easily, and I prefer shopping to woodwork. At school, I was good at languages and bad at science. None of these things make me a woman, they are partly coincidental and partly the result of my social conditioning.
I hate small talk and am abrupt towards strangers. I watch football sometimes. I find babies a bit dull. I don't watch soap operas or reality shows. I love Star Trek and have a book about the configuration of the starship Enterprise. As a child I refused to wear dresses and told people I was a tomboy, not a girl. None of these things make me confused about my identity, or suggest that I am a man trapped in a woman's body. They just make me a woman who is more than a stereotype.
A person born with a penis is a man, even if he loses the penis. He will never be a woman. I don't care what he wears, what name he adopts, or who he has sex with as long as their consent is genuine. I support his right to do all of these things without harassment. But he cannot become a woman, or insist on his right to invade women-only spaces. I will not pretend that he is a woman, and I will not change the way I define myself and other women to appease him.
I am a Woman, and if they want to call me a TERF, fine. I can live with that.

I am isupposeitsverynice, and mindalina, and some other names I forget, probably, and I'm here to stand and be counted as another who doesn't believe that biological sex can be changed, or that men should be pandered to in their pretense that they can.

I too have learnt and developed my feminism in the cosy warmth of MN and am truly, truly gutted to see MNHQ cave to the demands of men on the matter of women's oppression.

Didn't you used to run a campaign about the unnecessary gendering of childrens toys? What happened to letting kids be kids? Why must boys who like glitter and girls who like cars be forced down a surgical route?

Truly this is some 1984 bullshit and I will not be quiet anymore.

I am timelytess and I am Spartacus.

Men cannot become women. Women cannot become men.

Men must not be allowed to dictate what woman-ness is. To do so is psychological rape of around half the human population. It is male acquisition of femaleness, just as men have traditionally acquired anything they wanted, be it wealth, land or other people's bodies. Men listen to transwomen because they know transwomen are men. This makes biological women no longer 'the second sex' but now the third.

I do not want anyone to be hurt. I am sorry some people are not comfortable in the roles their biology gave them. But I am a woman, my child is a woman, her female child will be a woman. We are not men. We should not be expected to accept men as women. That is wrong and the pretence, the falseness, is harmful. I fear for all biological women facing this new challenge to our identity, particularly as we seem to be expected to accept it without question.

Dark is not light. Night is not day. Black is not white. Milk is not water. Men are not women.

I applaud all the women who have spoken out on this thread, to assert their womanhood and to attempt to secure the status of 'woman' for the benefit of biological women now and in the future.

I am timelytess and I am Spartacus.

MNHQ can't win this one.

You say that they are supporting the violent threats made against women if they continue deleting threads.

What about the violence about trans people? Are they backing that up if they allow threads to stand?

They have to look at the law, they have to look at what hate speech is defined as, they have to take into account the views on MN of which there are many, they can't jump in with a personal view and decide from that and start backing up everything said on trans threads.

You say it's impossible to have a discussion on here. Well that works both ways. There have been lots of threads asking for advice and support or just someone to chat to over on the LGBT section that have gone because people with their own opinions jump on and start berating the op. Those who have issues surrounding the people in their lives struggling with gender have nowhere to go either.

The views of a vocal minority are always trotted out on the trans threads 'well look at what this one person did in america, it's going to happen everywhere now' it's not the case at all. Most people struggling with gender just want a quiet life and to be happy and get on with as little fuss as possible.

Men have been getting into women's safe spaces for years and years. In the refuge I was in, for example, I had at least 3 different men in my flat fixing things and doing safety checks. I'm sure men who target women have got into refuge by simply getting a job before now.

Where I don't agree with the extreme views of a lot of the trans activists I also don't agree with the view that it's Ok to call someone who is struggling with their gender whatever you choose to. It's a cruel thing to do, I know, I've witnessed it.

Trans activists don't represent the views of the majority of trans people any more than radical feminists who believe all PIV is rape represent the views of the majority of feminists.

Please don't let the views of a few effect the way you treat an entire community of people.

I'm surprised it lasted so long without us all being called bigots quite frankly. Many, many of us have said that we have no issue with people living exactly as they wish. Most of us reject the concept of binary GENDER as the concept serves to restrict everyone, but especially women. I do not in any way shape or form believe that people should have to live within these gender confines.

BUT gender is not a polite word for sex. Sex is biological reality. There are two sexes, one producing sperm and one ova, and then a very small number of people with a physical disorder which means they are not entirely one or the other - by which I mean intersex, not trans.

When we segregate why do we do it? Let's not talk toilets but sport. Why do we have a division between men and women in sport? Because biology means that women could never hope to win against men I'm the vast majority of cases. If there was no woman's category there would be virtually no female athletes at the Olympics. So we segregate. But now we have individuals born as men who declare themselves to be women without any form of transition or transformation whatsoever. Right now, those men have to suppress their testosterone to compete in the woman's category but only to a level well in excess of what a woman naturally produces and this could change to not at all.

I was in hospital last year, a 4 bay ward. They segregate these by sex for both decency and safety - at night the doors are closed and there are a couple of nurses out of sight at the end of the corridor.

My friend was in a refuge for a while. No men were allowed to even visit in order to protect extremely vulnerable woman.

We need to be able to identify what a woman is and what a man is in order to protect women, their opportunities, their safe spaces and their choices. A person who has been born with a penis, and in the vast majority of cases still has that penis, is not the same as a born woman. I support their right to live however they wish but that does not mean that I need to believe they are a woman. They are a gender non confirming male, a feminine male, a male who has possibly had feminisation surgery. A trans woman if that is the title they prefer. But they are not a woman and have no right to demand that women accept them as such, whether in to our safe spaces, our sports or our vaginas.