What is Mumsnets definition of transphobia?

[TheRealPosieParker]

That's it really.

Mine would be hate or violence against trans people. Mine would not be "misgendering" or acknowledging transwomen are male and that they are not women.

[Thefitfatty]

If they are on estrogen and testing clear for all the steroids the Russian ladies are taking, why the hell not. Just as fair as any of the rest :/

[SuburbanRhonda]

I'll just sit back and read from now on

Or, you could answer some questions you've been asked, preferably without resorting the phrase"all you transphobic people".

[BertrandRussell]

"If they are on estrogen and testing clear for all the steroids the Russian ladies are taking, why the hell not. Just as fair as any of the rest :/"

So a man could train as a man for 10 years, then compete against women?

[Thefitfatty]

I love that as a feminist I've had to argue for years that biological difference shouldn't stop me from being a police officer, front lines in the military or a politician, but gosh, now I have to acknowledge biological differences when it's "men" wanting to compete against women.

[TheRealPosieParker]

Fitfatty (which unfortunately autocorrected as Dittany. Which is so unfitting)
ouriana you're right. Statistically that is incorrect. Because trans women actually experience the highest level of rape in prison, and the highest rates of domestic violence and murder in general.



Not true. Please tell us the source of your stats.

[TheRealPosieParker]

Let's get back.

What constitutes a phobia?

[Thefitfatty]

If you're taking estrogen 10 years of training won't do much, and the drug testing/ testing in general at that level wouldn't allow it. Even "biological" women can't compete if a certain amount is testosterone is present cause it's a sign of doping.

Caitlyn Jenner is hardly going to go compete in Rio.

As for transphobic rhetoric, it's everything several of you have been writing. The bull shit about safe spaces, cis, biological differences. I feel like I'm in a tea parlour in 1880 listening to the reasons i can't vote.

[GipsyDanger]

Or, you could answer some questions you've been asked, preferably without resorting the phrase"all you transphobic people"

What's the saying, if it sounds like a duck, looks like a duck... It's probably a duck

[TheRealPosieParker]

Hmmm if othering means transwomen are not women then so be it.
I don't expect to be called a man, I just expect equal opportunities and respect. Verging over to telling people to denounce biology is a rabbit hole too far.

[Thefitfatty]

blogs.worldbank.org/voices/gender-based-violence-lesbian-and-transgender-women-face-highest-risk-get-least-attention

[OlennasWimple]

Ego - I agree, and nearly posted something similar about transphobia being an unsatisfactory term. I looked up a couple of definitions, though, that seem to suggest it has become an all encompassing term for behaviours closer to ageism rather than agephobia (IYSWIM)

So I think we are, for now at least, stuck with it.

But what does it mean in the context of a forum like MN?

I don't disagree with your concerns about othering at all, but think a certain amount of generalization / grouping is inevitable both for short hand and because many MNers will not have trans friends to use as a point of reference . So in the same way I might say "Australians are a funny bunch, aren't they", a pp might use "they" when talking about trans women, say. Context and tone is obviously key

[OlennasWimple]

I don't want to put words in the OP's mouth, but what I would specifically like to know from MNHQ is

1. is rejecting the term "cis" considered transphobic?
   
2. is pointing out biological fact consisted transphobic?
   
   I think existing talk guidelines on PAs and goady fuckeryness probably cover 1) and 2) used in a demeaning, aggressive or insulting way?

[GerdaLovesLili]

Well obviously, going by your post on another thread Posie,

" TheRealPosieParker Thu 07-Jul-16 16:28:45

But transwomen are adult males... i.e. men."

Which still stands after having been reported for obvious transphobia after more than 24 hours MN have a very loose definition of transphobia.

[BertrandRussell]

"What's the saying, if it sounds like a duck, looks like a duck... It's probably a duck hmm"

This is the sort of thing that really pisses me off. You just scatter gun accusations.

[TheRealPosieParker]

Well obviously, going by your post on another thread Posie,

" TheRealPosieParker Thu 07-Jul-16 16:28:45

But transwomen are adult males... i.e. men."

Which still stands after having been reported for obvious transphobia after more than 24 hours MN have a very loose definition of transphobia.


So they're not biological males?

Let's say I divide people by biological sex and not personality. Still transphobic?

[BertrandRussell]

"What's the saying, if it sounds like a duck, looks like a duck... It's probably a duck hmm"

Yeah, well that's a bloody brilliant contribution to the discussion. Not.

[BertrandRussell]

Sorry- I didn't mean to post twice. But I am really angry about this.

[GipsyDanger]

This is the sort of thing that really pisses me off. You just scatter gun accusations

To quote on of my favorite books/film;
are you strong enough to point that high-powered perception at yourself? What about it? Why don't you - why don't you look at yourself and write down what you see? Or maybe you're afraid to.