What is Mumsnets definition of transphobia?

[TheRealPosieParker]

That's it really.

Mine would be hate or violence against trans people. Mine would not be "misgendering" or acknowledging transwomen are male and that they are not women.

[BeyondVulvaResistance]

A face at a statement that is related to the op looks like disagreeing to me. If that isn't how it was meant, perhaps you could have been a little clearer?

[TerrificHons]

ada trying to align assertive female sexuality with offensive terms is ridiculous. A trans woman is not the same as me. I'm not afraid or wrong to say it and people like you won't silence me.

[TheRealAdaLovelace]

you missed my point Hons....
I know a transwoman is not the same as you, but to keep banging on about it to them is just rude.

[TerrificHons]

Is it "rude" or is ensuring that we feel safe in our designated spaces? Or ensuring that female athletes don't have to compete against trans athletes with unfair testosterone levels? Where do you draw the line, ada ?

[TheRealPosieParker]

Egosumquisum Fri 08-Jul-16 17:25:20
But I will not lie about thinking that trasnwomen pass as women, as they don't, none do

I thought this thread was about how MNHQ defined transphobia hmm


I was answering this The R

[GipsyDanger]

Transwomen are women, as transmen are men. Ego, I can only imagine what shit you have had to put up with in your life. To me, you are, and always have been, a women. Your body just needs to catch up is all.
I am a huge fan of a band called steam powered giraffe, one of the artists came out as trans and is living (a lot happier) as a women. Getting a tiny peak in to her life and transformation really opened my eyes to the daily struggles the trans community experience and I am truly sorry for the arseholes that make life that bit more shitty

[TheRealAdaLovelace]

" Where do you draw the line, ada ? "

Where do I draw the line? Women only athletics.

[TheRealPosieParker]

A butch or morbidly obese woman is still a woman, she deserves access to all women's spaces without harm. A transwoman, considering it's a huge term without definition besides person that was born male that thinks they are a woman, is not a woman and therefore her descriptor is very very important. Her presence in women's spaces would make women feel uncomfortable and women should come first in the few spaces we've fought hard for.

[TheRealPosieParker]

It wasn't another trans thread.

It is supposed to be somewhere where people can discuss what is transphobic. I think the calls of "transphobia" are silencing, just like when people criticise the Burka and are told they are islamophobic, it is used to silence.

[BeyondVulvaResistance]

Apart from all the posts talking about transphobia, of course...

[BeyondVulvaResistance]

Also, to hijack a little bit, I'd like to know (as I asked on the cis thread too) if someone calls you transphobic and it is unfounded (based on whatever line mnhq draw now), can that be deleted as a personal attack? As you are basically being called a bigot and it is 100% intended as a personal attack?

[GiraffesAndButterflies]

Lets just let transwomen be women if that is what they want

Except that that erodes women's rights to safe spaces, affects reporting of any statistics involving women, and in some cases has already enabled transwomen to harm women.

I agree with the OP: hate speech and violence should not be condoned. But neither should transwomen be able to call themselves "women". They aren't. Superficial physical changes can be made, appearances can be altered. DNA, socialisation, upbringing, physical capabilities can't be. To say otherwise is like saying that someone who's had a hysterectomy is no longer female.

[TiggyOBE]

Hi Gipsy

Another SPG fan here!

[OlennasWimple]

Can I suggest debate on whether trans women are women goes over to another thread, and we keep this one purely for the OP about what constitutes transphobia on MN?

For what it's worth, I would start with being clear what is not transphobia (unless the context makes it a PA or general goadiness). So refusing to acknowledge the term "cis" is not transphobic; refusing to talk about "women's penises" or similar is not transphobic. Expressing discomfort with receiving personal care or sharing intimate spaces with a trans woman is not in itself transphobic, but the way that sentiment is expressed may be.

Phrases like "bloke in a dress" may well be transphobic, depending on context. There may be times when it is appropriate.

Good luck with your surgery Ego

[PortiaCastis]

On the other thread about cis there is a poster who screamed transphobic because women objected to being labelled cis.
Women have a voice and if we dont want to be called bloody cis that is not transphobic. Why do heterosexual women have to put up with all the labels? I dont accept being called cis and I am sick of all this name calling. Wtf is wrong with people

[TheRealPosieParker]

So someone went to wedding and saw a person dressed like a scarecrow, or a very very large woman/small woman in an unsuitable outfit.... they would say without being accused of being "phobic" however if they said that there was a bloke in a dress, ,some may say it's transphobic.

[NeedACleverNN]

Good luck on your surgery Ego

[NeedACleverNN]

Yes I can see them sitting there with their head in the hands and a large glass of wine going "ffs not again"

Not a job I envy at all

[BeyondVulvaResistance]

(See what I said upthread about people who are trans themselves actually being a lot easier to talk to about it than the randoms who shout "TRANSPHOBIA!!!" at everything :) )

[Felascloak]

Oh the man in a dress might have been me and is a misinterpretation of what I meant
I meant it's impossible to tell from looking whether a person in a toilet is a transwoman or a man in a dress with ulterior motives for being there.
I did not mean transwomen are men in dresses.
I do have concerns about women's safety due to various experiences with dangerous men and I wish that it was easier to discuss that without coming across as transphobic. Unfortunately I feel not bring able to discuss it at all is damaging to women as it means society can't find a solution that meets the needs of transwomen and protects all women (transwomen too) in vulnerable situations from male predators.
I would definitely find it helpful to see MNHQs view of transphobia.

[BeyondVulvaResistance]

🍸🍸🍸 for hq