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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Do you think it's time to start a sexuality shaming topic?

528 replies

HotSauceCommittee · 17/05/2014 18:47

For all those who want us to shut up and not to help and laugh with others about sex?

Maybe we could keep the censorious ness and the comments of "what is wrong with people?"

"This is pathetic"

"Why do you need/want to talk about this?"

I've seen no "twats", either metaphorical, or literal, on the sex threads, just coherent, strong argument in favour of discussion and some great humour at times.

I notice that the anti-sex brigade didn't answer some of the rebuttals and counter questions to their protests on the sex threads. Perhaps they'd care to elaborate on a special "Sexuality shaming" thread? Then they can get together some really good insults going and hopefully make the "sex positive" posters among us shut up and creep back into the woodwork.

Has it got legs, do you think?

OP posts:
BOFster · 18/05/2014 00:58

It does still come down to the general character of the site though, and helping it remain the wonderful female-focused space it is, rather than posting so much potentially titillating stuff all over the place in high-traffic areas that we shoot ourselves in the foot and end up pulling the ladder up on future users. Once we become a massive magnet for laddish site invasions of pervs and voyeurs who fundamentally consider us ridiculous, then we risk losing what makes us special.

It just requires posters to be a little bit circumspect about how and where they post, so we can still talk about what we want, while flying under the radar of obviously non-genuine wankers.

I suspect that tweeting Penis Beaker was the biggest liability event for mumsnet since the Gina Ford debacle.

FunnyFoot · 18/05/2014 01:01

But that happens all the time. I have been caught out by MN Bingo. I felt quite upset not to be in on the 'joke' (it wasn't about sex) as I had invested a opinion so that made me the butt of the joke. But I suppose that's ok as it wasn't about sex.
MN Bingo caused uproar over NY and none of them were about sex. But again the people that got upset then and were the butt of the joke don't matter as they were not sex threads.

You cannot blame one topic when many topics are guilty of the same thing. I see more poo trolls than sex trolls tbh and I usually find the sex trolls easier to spot.

RandallFloyd · 18/05/2014 01:04

BoF, you are so much more articulate than I am!
I am just going to let you speak for me from now on, you're much better at it. Grin

RandallFloyd · 18/05/2014 01:09

Oh god, don't start about the bloody poo trolls. Envy

KissesBreakingWave · 18/05/2014 01:11

Genuinely baffled about the heavy-breather-wanking thing. You can't see them, can't be sure they're there, for all you know they only exist in your imagination. The only reason that could be bothering anyone is if they made a conscious effort to think about them. WHY would you do that to yourself?

Anyway, for my sins, I spent a couple of years of my life working in an office that dealt, among other things, with legal issues relating to the protection of children. In the course of that, I got a fairly clear look at what the genuinely creepy are into. So, if you want to really avoid threads that someone might be masturbating over, stay away from anything discussing lower underwear, socks, shoes, stockings, tights, prolapses anywhere south of the navel, feet, any kind of body hair or odour, or anything anyone female might do while sat on the lavatory, particularly if it happens other than on a lavatory or while fully clothed.

Slightly lesser risks include gloves, bras, corsets, hair and the styling/brushing thereof, getting muddy, sweating, laundry, getting spattered with food, and blowing up, popping and handling balloons.

Your actual wankers are almost certainly not on or provoking the sex threads. Those that want that find themselves entirely well-served on the rest of the internet, often in HD video. It's the 'specialty interests' that have to go looking on sites like this one.

(Full disclosure: I tend to go wandering down memory lane for the rare occasions when I want to crack one off. Generally women are not involved. Or, on some of the wilder occasions, even in the building. Grin)

FunnyFoot · 18/05/2014 01:13

I think AIBU causes more issues than a sex thread tbh. The way folk are going on you would think there was a sex thread in every topic and that is not the case.

Everything has it's place and I feel that those who want to talk openly about sex (non troll) should be allowed to do so without being criticised for bringing the site in to disrepute or being blamed for trolls.

This is a forum for people but mostly women to talk and discuss a whole host of topics that they maybe cannot discuss in rl and it should remain so.

MNHQ will delete the trolls as they always do.

BOFster · 18/05/2014 01:23

Oh, we've had a Tights Troll before, Kisses. And the Poo Troll is omnipresent, Randall Grin.

For me, the bigger problem than the odd monkeyspanking lurker is the pretty sizeable swathe of hostile misogynists who join to post or contribute to sex threads because it amuses them to mock us, often in collective groups from sites like PieAndBovril etc.

The Internet is FULL of blokes queuing up to ridicule and belittle outspoken women- look at any comments thread under female newspaper columnists. I'd really really love to not attract that here. We would lose so much by carelessly inviting them to our party.

FunnyFoot · 18/05/2014 01:34

But it is an open forum therefore they are invited.

Penis beaker has already done the damage and I very much doubt a few sex threads will incur a plethora of dicks from other sites. Well anymore than usual tbh.
You can spot those kinds of posters a mile off and they usually get told where they can stick their pie shortly before they are deleted.

You worry about them ridiculing women yet what some are saying is that the sex threads should be toned down/banned well isn't that just letting the pie guys silence women?
So we are still been ruled and dictated to by men. Interesting.

SecretWitch · 18/05/2014 01:35

BOFster (or BOFaster as I still think of you) You have said everything I am thinking only much more coherently. I enjoy sex and believe there is a place for discussion on MN. I am not comfortable trotting out my stories of hot monkey love as I wish to keep that aspect of my life private. I hope poster's will consider carefully who may reading their intimate confessions and where else's they may be reposted.

SecretWitch · 18/05/2014 01:37

Oh FFS..where else's??? Where else they may be posted...see what happens when I write about sex!

FunnyFoot · 18/05/2014 01:41

Well the same can be said to those who share regarding their mooncup/prolapse/periods/thrush/circumcision/incontinence.

The oddities that get off on reading about someone's sexual antics will have a twin who gets off on the stuff I just listed but nobody wants those topics banned or toned down.

BOFster · 18/05/2014 01:44

An open forum doesn't mean they are invited or welcome; it just means that if we put the bunting out, they'll spot it and come in to ruin everything.

It never used to be a problem discussing sex on mumsnet. It's just that it was never such a prevalent theme, and we were living in a blissfully twitter-free era, so we didn't get the unsavoury gatecrashers.

I really don't think that asking people to be mindful about posting gleefully explicit threads in high-traffic areas is such an unreasonable suggestion. We didn't used to have to worry about it, but now it seems that we do. Just use a bit of common sense, people, and keep the site as we want it, rather than attracting (mostly) blokes who would delight in fucking it up.

Discretion is the better part of valour, and all that.

FunnyFoot · 18/05/2014 01:49

There is nothing wrong with what your suggesting however I think that it should be MNHQ who post the warning and not posters who take it upon themselves to write snidey remarks/name calling or saying they should stop as its disgusting and their fault there are so many trolls.

Freedom of speech and all that.

IsChippyMintonExDirectory · 18/05/2014 08:22

YY FunnyFoot you and BOFster put if all far more eloquently than I!

I have no issue with MN being policed, they do a very good job of striking the balance between allowing freedom of speech and calming it down when it gets out of hand. However it is very much their job to do this, not posters who have personal beliefs about others talking about sex. It baffles me that people can't see how this is offensive and upsetting.

HotSauceCommittee · 18/05/2014 08:42

I agree with you Chippy, some of the comments and attitudes from the MN sex police are hateful and upset me far more last night than even a troll starting a silly thread did. I felt I could start a debate, disagree with folks I sometime have a laugh with on other threads and then carry on. This does not seem to be the case and to accuse me of being happy to knowingly be wank fodder for others is below the belt and untrue. If that isn't sexuality shaming (making up stuff too!), I don't know what is.
Those who accuse me of that are giving far more head space to the onanists than I ever did, ever want to, and ever will.
I have been burned before, I won't go into details, but I've admitted it before, been honest and there was no gleeful malice that I remember from anyone. This is not the case now. What a pity.

I am still happy with what I revealed on the threads of the past couple of days; that was limited detail that I was happy to share in its context on the thread with people I am very happy to engage with. We all have different levels and checks on what we say. That was my limit, not someone else's.

I don't care whether there is a sex topic or not. If there was, I'd use it, as there isn't, well we are all adults here.
For all the frothing about sex and over sharing (or not), the debate had had so little gory detail as to be negligible. We've had politics, history, humour, anthropology, psychology all kinds of great stuff. There is so much more to it than "cock in hole", so to complain so vehemently about others and their sex lives is so reductive.

OP posts:
IsChippyMintonExDirectory · 18/05/2014 09:00

*There were several posts upthread about how these threads are helpful to people, affirming, supportive etc. I disagree.

That 'embarrassing sex' thread was indeed a joke but the posters weren't in on it. They were the butt of it. That's difference.*

That was purely a humour thread. The ejaculating thread for example has sprinklings of humour but mainly lots of women agreeing that it's ok to like certain things in the bedroom without being labelled weird or abnormal. That is what is affirming for me personally, and I don't think its a fellow posters place to decide that that's inappropriate.

RandallFloyd · 18/05/2014 09:31

It wasn't purely a humour thread. That's the entire issue.
It was a troll thread.
It was a troll asking for wank fodder and getting it.

The whole point is that we need to get away from the idea that we are sharing stuff 'in its context on the thread with people I am very happy to engage with'. We aren't. We are sharing stuff with the entire internet.

The context of that thread wasn't a bunch of online friends sharing a joke; it was a creepy perv getting his kicks by getting all the middle class Boden-wearing, respectable, mummies to reveal that they're really just dirty bitches underneath.

That's their fantasy. The weird madonna/whore mummy ishoos. That's why they come here instead of the eleventy billion freely available porn sites. Because the thrill is subterfuge, flying under the radar, posing as one of us in order to get the real life stories.

I think that's fucking horrible. It makes my skin crawl. We should absolutely be able to talk about whatever the hell we want but that's just not how it is.

No one on here is 'sex-shaming'. The people doing that are the trolls. They're the ones laughing at all this. I'm certainly not.

FunnyFoot · 18/05/2014 09:45

I have been sucked in by trolls on other threads who for whatever reason get their kicks from posting on the bereavement boards/child development/benefits and such. I have seen page after page of people sharing their experiences only to find out later the thread was deleted for being a troll. How is that any different to a sex thread?

At the end of the day both groups are sucked in by a troll but for some reason folk are focusing on the sex threads as the mother of all evil. I find the emotional trolls more disturbing than the sex trolls tbh and I feel they do more damage to this site.

People over share on here constantly and I do feel that those who choose to talk about sex get targeted the most and blamed for bringing wankers to the site. The sex shaming is done by some posters as I have seen on the chat thread. Lots of Hmm and calls of disgust/your bringing the site down/do grow up/your just wank fodder.

Most people are intelligent enough to realise that somebody somewhere could be getting off on what they are sharing but considering that can be true of many of the topics discussed here you cannot completely eradicate it.

HotSauceCommittee · 18/05/2014 09:54

But Randall, if someone is cracking one off, I don't want to know. For every post I make, every poster I engage with, I don't know, maybe a dozen other lurk and just read it.
As long as the five knuckle shuffler doesn't make me aware of his activities, I just don't want to give it head space. I want to engage with the like minded and I am not arsed that the troll thread wasn't what it seemed. The people I engaged with on there were worth it. We had a laugh irrespective of someone else "laughing at us and asking for wank fodder". I can take some random laughing at me. It's fine. They don't know me.

OP posts:
MrsMaturin · 18/05/2014 10:00

Nobody knows who they are engaging with here. None of you know who I am, how old I am etc. So how can you be sure you'd be happy to share really intimate details of your life? Details which HAVE already on this site led to other posters being sent upsetting PMs from (now banned) poster IDS. Those of us who are urging you to be a bit more reticent are not trying to silence women or sex shame nor are we prudes or people trying to impose our values on everybody else. Some of my best friends have sex Grin What we are saying is you need to be careful because what you are writing is NOT being read by the audience you think and it WILL come back to bite you. What's more, it comes back to bite me because of the impact on all the site.

FunnyFoot · 18/05/2014 10:09

MrsM How will it come back to bite you/me? Please elaborate.

People are generally not stupid enough to believe every poster is genuine and I think you have a nerve implying that they are. Most of the posters I saw on the chat thread are long standing members who would have been around long enough to understand trolls but they still chose to post. As that is their choice.

You are trying to silence those who do not follow your moral compass because it is not something YOU do or because YOU think it is wrong. This site was not created just for YOU in has a whole host of different people on it with different views to you. Except that as a fact MrsM as it is very unlikely to change.

FunnyFoot · 18/05/2014 10:10
HotSauceCommittee · 18/05/2014 10:38

MrsM, I have been bitten before: I was "the one" under another NN. So I've been bitten, had my arse handed to me (as many others will be happy to attest to), been outed in RLBlush(fucking hell)made mistakes. The "worst" has already happened to me.
But aren't the majority of us ace?

The benevolent, good humoured Mnetters absolutely drown the more malevolent contributors. I don't want to upset people or attract unwanteds, but it's an anonymous public forum and I can talk about sex without people knowing who I am, where I live etc.

The good far outweighs the bad and the "what if's". I just can't live my life in the shadow of "what if" and I don't want to be the MN pervert outcast either. I'm not going to find out your addresses and lez you all up Grin

OP posts:
RandallFloyd · 18/05/2014 11:09

Right, I going to have one last go at explaining my point then I'm giving up. I'm clearly not saying it very well.

The Internet is riddled with trolls. We all know this. It's a sad fact of life. We can't do anything about it. They are everywhere.

So what is the best way to deal with it?

To try and find a balance, to try and protect ourselves whilst at the same time not curtail our enjoyment of the wonderfulness that the World Wide Web has to offer?

Or to pretend they don't exist?

I was on the thread about the horrible PM's. If I remember correctly it ended up a really good discussion about the motivation of these 'men' and the harm they can do.

If a stranger in the pub asked you to start sharing your sex stories, would you? Or would you tell him to piss off?

If you could see a creepy looking man leering at you whilst you and your friends were having a laugh about sex would you carry on talking as if he wasn't there? Or would you tell him to piss off?

It's not about stopping anyone on MN or anywhere else talking about sex. It's just about asking people to think, for one minute, about the motivation behind the thread before they dive in.

I don't want MN to become a laughing stock. I don't want it to stop being a great, open, supportive, funny, intelligent, sweary, adult place where you can ask anything about anything.

I don't want that to be replaced by pervy PM's and wanking trolls.

Yes they will always be there, but we don't have to invite them in with open arms.

meditrina · 18/05/2014 11:12

"benevolent, good humoured Mnetters absolutely drown the more malevolent contributors"

Absolutely.

And that is why so many explicit threads exist and won't be deleted.
And that the one yesterday that was 'off' got quite a different reponse.