Do you think it's time to start a sexuality shaming topic?

[HotSauceCommittee]

For all those who want us to shut up and not to help and laugh with others about sex?

Maybe we could keep the censorious ness and the comments of "what is wrong with people?"

"This is pathetic"

"Why do you need/want to talk about this?"

I've seen no "twats", either metaphorical, or literal, on the sex threads, just coherent, strong argument in favour of discussion and some great humour at times.

I notice that the anti-sex brigade didn't answer some of the rebuttals and counter questions to their protests on the sex threads. Perhaps they'd care to elaborate on a special "Sexuality shaming" thread? Then they can get together some really good insults going and hopefully make the "sex positive" posters among us shut up and creep back into the woodwork.

Has it got legs, do you think?

Satan of course they should be reported and banned, and it's awful that posters get those types of PMs.

I just feel like its only the sex posters who are being accused of attracting said sad bastards, when actually they don't mean to attract sad bastards any more than the bra posters do.

It smacks a little of victim blaming to me, like Garlic said posts don't cause perverts, yet there seems to be a lot of people who are pointing fingers at only the sex posters.

No, I'm not denying there's been a change. I've agreed on this thread and others. I do, though, feel change is inevitable - and disagree that the 'good' Mumsnet has gone. It's still here. It's just that there's now more other stuff, as well! I imagine this isn't only due to the site's increased visibility, but also that internet adoption is nearly complete in the UK, meaning a lot of hitherto unconnected people have suddenly been exposed to a wealth of other folk's thoughts & ideas.

By help I mean avoid, in case anyone was getting a fanjo anecdote dusted off.

You wouldn't want to hear my fanjo's anecdotes.

Heh

You know, I still love Mumsnet. There are, as yet, too few places where a woman can post a tetchy rant about her partner, to be told he really isn't acting like a grown-up and she deserves better. The longer MN stays outspoken & honest, and the bigger it gets, the more women will wake up and the attitude will spread :)

That's what we want. Fuck the perverts! Which I have inadvertently done, at times.

Satan

You have a seemingly naive view of the world in that you think only 'pure' sex threads attract trolls.

I can assure you that those people who like the threads about toilet training, BFing and birth for more nefarious reasons will NOT want to draw attention to that fact. Reading without waving on a thread to say 'hi' is enough for many of them.

I knew a forensic prisoner who wanked over BFing photographs in the old style Mothercare catalogue and used to cut out photos of boxes of panty liners and use them in a sordidly creative decoupage manner. I imagine that had he still been alive he would have graduated onto the internet and sought out explicit threads dealing with related issues.

But I am not all over them like a rash saying 'ooh, attracting perverts again you exhibitionist with your graphic description of discharges and periods and leaking nipples'. I assume that as adults, we know what we are doing and don't need some hectoring pushy Mamma chaperoning us.

Maybe you'd suit Nethuns better?

And how do you know that a thread asking for advice on biological matters is not a troll thread? You wouldn't because many of them have likely built up a successful posting history posing as new Mamma.

I don't see why it's so odd not to care if my typed words were a turn on to some perv. If in some small way it contributes to a discussion and perhaps makes someone think a little more creatively about their bedroom pursuits, I'm happy to share my experiences and to defend my DP from those presuming any man wanting to indulge in certain behaviour must be a domineering wanker when the impetus comes from me for many things and he is much more vanilla than I am.

I think posting about certain acts to challenge the idea that 'anyone who does xxx must be a xxx' is a valid point of debate on a grown up forum.

Obviously talking about sex will mean the occasional person will notice and get some sort of thrill from it, but as others have mentioned poo trolls, bed wetting trolls and bra trolls, there is no point in trying to censor sex threads any more than you can censor poo threads by saying 'it's one thing to mention having a poo but for gods sake don't go into any details about it or someone might get off on it.'

I'm not sharing photos of myself or my DP or any identifying details unless you have updated your spreadsheets to include details from every other thread I'm on so why would I be embarrassed to have a few anonymous written words in a public space trying to challenge the idea that my loved one must be a pervert because of something I like to do?

Exactly. And why sex is any more or less private than your childs toilet habits I do not know. Especially when your child is NOT a consenting adult nor afforded the kind of privacy the naysayers expect for themselves.

I do actually wonder if people believe that posting intimate details about your sex life on a parenting website is exactly the same as posting for advice about your childs health or potty training?

I know this is just reviving this thread but something has been bugging me throughout all the recent conversations about what topics are discussed and how much people share online etc, and it's taken me a while to figure out what that is.

Like on any internet forum, there are a number of posters on MN who are more high profile. I sincerely doubt this is the intention of any (or most) of these posters but it is the nature of the beast. Whether it is because they are very knowledgeable on a particular subject, have a good or funny posting style etc, they do become more recognised on the site than other posters. Because they post regularly, they have friends, they are chatted to by other posters etc. It doesn't a new user long to start noticing the same names. I don't think any of this is bad at all, it is a natural development on a discussion forum like MN. People can use this site as often or as much as they like, and make friends on the site, that's part of what it is here for.

Where this relates to the recent conversations, particularly this thread and the other linked threads, is that when a number of posters who are 'higher profile' (for lack of a better phrase to use) say that they dislike particular topics, or they feel particular topics of discussion should be moved to a separate topic/page, or that new posters are oversharing and bringing down the tone of the site and all the other opinions that have been shared – these comments can to be taken the wrong way by other posters. I don't mean to imply in any way that this is the intention of those posters, but it can occasionally come across as "I have been here longer, so my opinions count for more".

When this gets combined with the jokes about spreadsheets and keeping tabs on name-changers, in my personal opinion it all gets quite complicated. I do understand the spreadsheet joke, though personally I don't like it very much and I have got the impression over the time I have been on MN that other posters have the same reaction. It again can come across wrong to someone who doesn't know the history, as if certain posters feel that they are the arbiters of what sort of opinions can be aired on MN, as if notes are being taken on posters who say the wrong thing or have the wrong opinion etc. I know that isn't the case, but that it how it can come across. Take the discussions about posters being naïve for oversharing. Some posters really won't mind sharing and have said that it doesn't bother them if some random person finds their comments alluring is some way, but when they are told they are being naïve, it can come across as "no, I know better than you, I'm going to tell you how it is." (Though of course this does all feed into a discussion about the overall tone and use on MN to the outside world).

I've probably not explained this very well. It's just something that has been bothering me in the background for a while now, from some tiny little arguments that people have had on threads and from some posters comments and responses. And it's probably not that relevant to anything. But to me, how I've been reading some threads recently, that is my impression of why some posters have been upset, angry or heated in their response. I really don't mean to say that it is anyone's fault – just we all know how easy it is words on a screen to be misread or misunderstood, and IMO sometimes these discussions about what MN should be for or what people should talk about can come across in a very different way from how the original poster probably meant it.

I hope that makes a bit of sense. Probably not relevant to anyone now, but I wanted to say why I think the whole sex threads, oversharing discussion this weekend has got quite heated…

That is not what I said Tantrum and most of the posts on the FE thread were discussing the issues around it NOT intimate details of it. I imagine the complainers are of similar ilk to those who email TV companies to c/o things in shows they don't like- most of them turn out not to have even watched them / read the 'offending' threads through.

#Bandwagonjumping

mignonette you said that sex is no more or no less private than your childs toilet habits?

Personally I find it completely different. Thats why I asked.

If that makes me one of the "ilk" that complain to TV companies in your mind then so be it.

Thurlow I don't really know what to make of all that.

Thurlow

Your post makes perfect sense and I agree.

Another thing I might add is the misplaced belief that having been a MUmsnetters for the best part of a decade somehow equips these posters with special insight into a site which changes and morphs like anything else. Nor is it something to feel proud of or entitled about.

The tone of 'I'm concerned for new posters' or 'I'm just trying to help'- nah, I don't buy it. Posts like this are the equivalent of scent marking- you are being territorial and trying to force newly forged pegs into holes you believe you shaped.

It's like being a Cliff Richard fan - a little bit naff

I agree very much with this:

'When this gets combined with the jokes about spreadsheets and keeping tabs on name-changers, in my personal opinion it all gets quite complicated. I do understand the spreadsheet joke, though personally I don't like it very much and I have got the impression over the time I have been on MN that other posters have the same reaction. It again can come across wrong to someone who doesn't know the history, as if certain posters feel that they are the arbiters of what sort of opinions can be aired on MN, as if notes are being taken on posters who say the wrong thing or have the wrong opinion etc.'

And fwiw I read the threads, all of them.

Seems to me that if you can't win if you name change every five minutes or you never have at all now.

At least I am able to consent to discussions about my own life. My children (when young) were not. And your children's toilet habits are private. Would you discuss them with a stranger in the street? Would you do this in front of them with strangers? I wouldn't. MN is not that different. It is the principle.

And none of you appear to have any answer to the issue of lurkers using what you see as perfectly innocent posts as wank and fantasy fodder because there is none. We all have to accept that everything has a darker side and act appropriately within that.

But stop trying to hive off sex as something separate and sleazy because that says a hell of a lot. As I bang on about., I don't talk about my sex life on here and rarely with friends too. But the FE thread had interesting discussion on it and I deeply resent the implication on this and other threads that those participating in that discussion were doing it solely for the purposes of out expliciting each other or showing off.

I have hidden the FE thread but from what I can remember there were some very enthusiastic and revealing posts in favour of it. There were very few 'yes, i think it's fine' and leaving it at that.

Sparkling, I can't really find a way to express it any better. Like I said, it's just something that's been playing on my mind for a while. I really don't think that any of it is meant, it's just how it can come across.

I started a thread a while ago that with hindsight wasn't in the best possible taste, and I started it under a name change I was toying with keeping. It was one of those 'unpopular opinions' threads, I meant it in a light-hearted way but it understandably brought some very unpleasant things out of the woodwork. After a while a few posters, very recognisable ones, came on to say that it was all in bad taste and the joke about "taking notes" and "updating the spreadsheet" was made. I had to publicly say this username (not that I minded, I wasn't nc for any reason other than I'd thought of a new name I liked) to stop accusations of being a troll.

I fully agreed with them in hindsight that I hadn't thought the thread through very well and hadn't realised what kind of comments it would provoke. But it was a very clear example of what I was trying to explain above. I probably took it quite personally as it was my thread, but it felt like the prefects had turned up and told me to stop.

I really, really don't mean this to come across as one of those "MN Royalty" complaints that occasionally get wheeled out. I like pretty much everyone I meet on here, I love the site, and I think that most of the more recognisable posters are so because they are funny, clever, and experienced.