TDWP and recent goings-on

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

We thought it would be useful to explain our understanding of what occurred last week between Zombie, Footsteps/TDWP, Rhubarb etc to try to clear up any misunderstandings.

When the situation started to develop last week, we absolutely did not know that Footsteps was TDWP. We unearthed something to suggest that she was near midnight on the night that everything was kicking off. At that point, one MNer was waiting in a public place to meet up with her, and we had been told by Zombie and by Nom that the police were aware of the rendezvous details and were standing by to help if anything went wrong.

We could see from some PMs flying around that posters were saying that the crime reference number checked out, and that the refuge had confirmed they had a space for her, so at this point we thought the best course was to keep channels of communication open. So we didn't ban Footsteps again at that point, despite having realised who she was. We did re-ban her once things had settled down and we had been told she was in a safe place. Given past history, TDWP is not a poster we would consider allowing back to Mumsnet permanently.

At various points throughout the evening we were in phone or text contact with Zombie and with Rhubarb, mostly trying to establish (as far as we could) what was going on and whether people were behaving safely. FWIW, we thought at the time - and still do - that it was a hugely risky thing to do, and not something we would advise or encourage. We would never recommend that any MNer goes into a situation like this, particularly not on her own. As most of you will know, we remind posters regularly that not everyone on the internet is who and what they say they are. We're pulling together some content on internet safety for adults and hope to publish that soon.

We asked Rhubarb at the time (before we had conclusive evidence about Footsteps's identity) whether she thought the person Zombie was meeting was a previously banned poster, and she said that she had no reason to think it was.

Pretty much everything else took place off-board and via channels that we have no access to - so beyond this account we aren't able to say with certainty what has gone on.

But they weren't involved in whipping up the frenzy scottish - they had to react to it.

But what i really cannot understand (and i know im posting now!!) is why people are still arguing over it? Nobody died, it worked out in the end? (happy to be corrected). Zombie is safe. Why the vitriol?

"The sprites as you put it were zombie,tdwp. Both het up by online drama" Both? That is your perception. Not necessarily a truth.

Anyway. I have a friggin mba thesis to formulate so cant procrastinate in here any longer.

Oh I do get the "worried about zombie" what I dont get is the lies and accusations afterwards, and the pounding Rhubs got.

Pounding?no that's your subjective perception. But I'm unlikely to disavow you of it
Tdwp and zombie,both liked they drama.they fulfilled a need in each other
This triggered a chain of events,that were enacted online.it wasn't a private act.it was online high octane act

I think it's quite honourable to help where you can, regardless of the outcome but I think MNHQ's responsibility should stop at some point. The fleeing woman needs to be safe and the safest way to be is OFF a thread visible to the public.

The reason I say this partly is that her abusive partner could be hacking her and impersonating someone else.

This forum is too anonymous to assume that anyone is who they say they are, and having the same IP address might mean that the victim is communicating directly with the perpetrator, thinking they are helping them. Great, we meet up and escape - but who are you really meeting up with? Unlikely but it's bloody risky, these men are dangerous and highly sneaky and intelligent. Their sneakiness is what entrapped their victims in the first place.

So MN should be available to desperate people who need contact with someone for help, after that it should go offline as quickly as possible.

Anyone that has any knowledge of DV training knows that you a) don't tell the victim to leave and b) when she does want to go make sure that she has everything in place to be safe.

Nobody should be banned for helping someone out.

And I'm assuming that MN are getting good advice from DV professionals as to how to handle these situations...

Ok, I have pretty much avoided this so far, but I think this needs saying, so will post and then run away

I have no particular opinion on what zombie/nom/rhubarb did, and can see everyones side of that, so staying well out of it!

I know tdwp is a known drama llama troll
I know she was banned for making up dv situations (out of curiosity, how is it known they were made up/it wasnt her dh posting etc?)
I know that some people here have been lied to by her in the past, and obviously their views are coloured by that

But I really don't like the assumption that as a pbp she must have been making it all up. Because someone with a tendency to be a tad dramatic can ever have anything bad really happen to them?

(I probably empathise with that a little too much as it rings a little too close to home)

What happened to "we believe you"? :(

Absolutely disagree,mn role isn't to be available to those in need.its online chat forum
There are statutory and individual services for individual in distress
Mn isn't a safe place,it's not got the skills or remit for crisis provision

lemming tdwp Is a troll who has been on mn on and off over the past seven years or so. this was not a new situation where a poster had sucked people in, she was known for being a troll and yet because it is not impossible to join websites under new personas etc she managed to come on mn and suck people in once again.

We could confine her to folklore I suppose - until she comes back. Again. and again. and again.

But this isn't just about tdwp. this is about A, people's ability to troll on subjects that are so very emotive, and B, people with rescuer tendencies who want to be the one who saves the day by driving bravely out into the night to put a poster up in a hotel who didn't actually need to be there.

A good thing? no it bloody wasn't - it was an idiotic thing to do. "no-one died." no, not this time. But that's a bit like saying that we shouldn't remonstrate with a three year old for running out into the road because he didn't get hit by a car.

People need to start realising that there are professionals who can deal with people in genuine need (which, for the record, I don't believe tdwp is for a second), and that if you really want to be a rescuer of people in genuine domestic situations, then perhaps you should consider joining such professional organisations instead of playing hero on an internet site where you could either be A, putting yourself at risk, or B, be pretending to be a rescuer and putting someone in genuine need at real risk.

People get far too carried away with their need to be rescuers. I remember some years back we had another one where a poster was fleaing her abusive partner in Japan, people even saught to find out how they could get her a passport - illegally - funds were set up, clothes were collected, places to stay were sorted, and guess what? she turned out to be a troll. Something to do with a fox iirc.

My personal view is that these types of threads need to be discouraged and zapped asap. they should never even get to the point of someone wanting to drive out to shelp someone because all this mass posting just whips the wannabe rescuers up into more of a frenzy...

"What happened to "we believe you"?" I think someone erodes their right to that unquestioning belief when they lie time and time and time again. Boy who cried wolf and all that.

Oh FFS. The whole thing was a fucking 'look at me. I'm a hero. I've been here so long so you must ALL listen to me'

Yawn. Rhubarb, zombie and whoever the other self styled hero was, were beyond stupid. I knew for fact it was TDWP by 8pm. I posted as such. I said, with many many others, that this was fucking ridiculous.

The 'uncle' was the last straw. If he could drive to meet zombie then the fucker could drive to the imaginary refuge.

Rhubarb won't apologise because she clearly thinks she's one of the saviours in this sorry saga. If the people involved think on balance that it all worked out, then they are as much to blame for stoking the fucking fire with their cloak and dagger self important bollocks.

MN should be available to desperate people who need contact with someone for help
No,no,no there are voluntary and statutory services who'll work in such situations
Mn should sign post to organisations,not facilitate interaction between online strangers

God almighty mnhq stopped for. Sale boards all the unpleasant scams and going ons
Imagine the disaster if they tried allowing apparently desperate posters to contact others on line
Leave the sorting desperate stuff to the appropriate agencies

Amen to that.

I think that is what NetMums do, scottishmummy. Point the poster toward the appropriate agency. Are we going to be like them?

But yes, you are right. I see the wisdom in stepping back and allowing the proper channels to take their course.

Beyond,

As I stated many times on the now deleted threads, I didn't doubt that the situation being described was at least partially true.

What I had an issue with was the way that we were being asked - no, demanded - to assist, in ways that no reasonable poster would expect anyone to.

It had manipulation written all over it, and has moreso in hindsight.

The fear I had was not that it was some hairy troll lurking ready to abduct someone from their car. It was exactly what HAS occurred, ie, there has been a lot of personal, emotional damage to everyone who got involved on a personal level.

The kind of poster who does this sort of thing is often in need, and I don't doubt in some degree of danger but their MO is to draw people in using emotive language and an emotive posting style and to elaborate, perhaps, in ways that don't necessarily involve straightforward lying.

It's not just the simple 'making it all up'' of other trolls. It's a much much more complex form of prevarication and it tends to distribute damage pretty exponentially.

We can see what harm it has caused just from this thread.

I don't imagine the original OP of the whole saga is sitting laughing - though she may be - I imagine she simply doesn't care.

There is - if I might make so bold - something wrong with her. In her thinking or in her behaviour, and I don't pretend to know this but from what comes across very strongly, she really doesn't know she is doing it, or how. It's automatic. And probably not entirely intentional.

Yet the harm it causes is - every single time - to many innocent bystanders. In short she's an accident waiting to happen.

That's why I wanted people to stay away from the situation. Not because I didn't think it was true. But because it was always going to be very damaging.

Rooners, I agree with your post :) there are a lot of people saying that as she was a troll though, she must be laughing now at the frothing here, that is what bugged me

I dont think the boy who cried wolf is a good comparison though wannabe. He was eaten the time he told the truth, wasnt he? So by that comparison, if someone elaborates on their homelife, making it sound like dv because they have much bigger issues, that would suggest they deserve to be one of the three women killed by their partners every week?

Mn already sign post folk to services,by links and warning one cannot authenticate posters seek advice in real life
I don't get the face?its responsible to sign post advice

Fair point that she didn't deserve to be abandoned to her fate. What that doesn't imply though is that she needed to have actual, physical attention from the people on here.

Hope that makes sense. Yet that is what she demanded.

The sad face was because it seemed so cold and clinical. Not much empathy or sharing of experiences.

But in potentially dangerous situations like DV, I see it is also the right thing to do.

One should only share what is safe.people need line savvy
Mn isn't an empathic,sympathetic hub.its. Huge online forum.a forum of strangers
Mn posts are Regularly replicated online and in print.not all. Read by sympathetic women

"Not much empathy or sharing of experiences." I don't think people should be encouraged to share experiences, actually. People should only share what they can afford to lose, and unfortunately when those experiences are so very emotive those who are sharing aren't always in a place to realise that they have shared more than they could afford to until it's too late.

I think that while nobody deserves to become a victim, if you make up a dv situation then you are also responsible if you then become a victim and people choose not to believe you.

I don't believe her, not for a second. I've seen too much of her bullshit on mn to think there's an ounce of truth in any of it.

I also think that if someone had form for not being believed previously and was then genuinely in need, they would go and find somewhere where they could start with a clean slate and where discovery wouldn't set them back. There are plenty of other forums where someone seeking advice for dv could get help, she didn't have to come here, but IMO she did knowing that she could easily draw people into her drama, and she did exactly that.

Who paid for the hotel rooms?

Apologies if this has already been said but I hope the refuge and the other women in it have been alerted to TDWP's difficulties. I imagine she's manipulative enough to pull people in and make all sorts of trouble for those she's with.