FWR split continued

[RebeccaMumsnet]

We have decided to start a new thread about this as the other thread was near capacity and taking a while to load.

Here is Justine's post from earlier on

We can give a Radical Feminism topic a go if that's what people want and see if it works. Obviously we need to be crystal clear that no one is obliged to post in one particular place and no one should feel excluded from any topic but we could test it out, and see if it helps resolve tensions. We'll do that in the next few days.

There are a couple of other things to think about as well.

First, those who come onto FWR to derail and inflame. We acknowledge that we have been too slow in the past to spot these posters for what they were. We're sorry about that and hope we're a lot quicker at dealing with them now. We're all for opinions but we do draw the line at posters whose only obvious intent is to goad.

And secondly, this idea that FWR can be an unwelcoming place to those who aren't following the 'party line'. Judging by posts on recent threads and by our inbox this is a view of a significant number of Mumsnetters and obviously that's not a healthy situation. Mumsnet is a place for discussion and for diverse opinion and it's the exchange of ideas and tolerance of differing opinions that makes it the board it is.

We do hope threads like this help to clear the air a bit and remind everyone that, whatever the differences of opinion, the FWR board will only ever be the stimulating, thought-provoking, enriching place we'd all like it to be if people feel that they can express themselves without being jumped on.

Please do continue to let us know your thoughts.

I don't think that's what Alameda meant, Scroobius.

Think she meant that whenever we discuss women's issues we're told that men go through exactly the same thing (leading to mass cry of "wot about teh menz"). e.g there is pressure on women to look good all the time, WAAAH there is pressure on men too.

It gets very boring and difficult to have a conversation thus.

I don't mean here on this thread, I mean on the fwr boards - why would you go to a board dedicated to discussing feminism only to repeatedly complain that other groups (usually men) have it worse.

yeah what yellowraincoat said

I just think it will be interesting to see how far those people really want to talk about other marginalised or oppressed or whatever groups and how far they just hate or feel threatened by women.

Ooooh I would love a human rights board

I think that would help actually. From what I've read, some people would like to post about women's rights generally, not necessarily drawing on feminist analysis.

Ok, I didn't read it like that. I apologise.

I agree entirely that it is frustrating to have posters pointing out other groups on a FWR thread (except to the extent that they are relevant to the FWR position). If there was an equality or human rights board then at least you would have somewhere to direct posters too, rather than just telling them to go away.

No one said it's anti-femininst WP.

I did say it was bloody boring though.

I'm not concerned with men's rights that much. Honestly, maybe it sounds heartless, but let them set up DV charities if it's such a huge problem.

No doubt men do suffer from DV as well. But why talk about it in the context of feminism? There's just no link for me.

Directing posters never goes down well, Scroobious.

maybe it's because it's usually a way of diverting attention from the very real number of deaths of women at the hands of partners/ex partners - which I thought was two a week but my daughter insists is now one every two days in the UK but I don't know where she got that from, freedom programme maybe?

that's a lot more deaths than, say, soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan

Oh and beyond that, discussing men's issues as part of women's is just a way for men to invade our space. NOTHING can be discussed about women without men being mentioned. Most of the male posters get INFURIATED when they're not engaged with. Men sit on the tube with their legs and arms all over.

I am sick of having my space, physical and psychological, being taken up by men.

then at least you would have somewhere to direct posters too, rather than just telling them to go away.

Isn't that just the same thing? Get out of our section you don't belong here. Go to your section? Missing the fact there is massive overlap and merit in a lot of discussions that some people don't want to have - which a lot of people have commented on saying they are often the ones they learn the most from.

Really, people just want to have opinions respected not approved as being 'correct'.

That's what the new thread button is for, Wickety, instead of taking a thread about DV against women down the men are victims too line.

Actually, maybe that's the answer. More threads.

men suffer dv at the hands of other men

or claim it when a woman is defending herself against him

and when women are the perpetrators - what is stopping them from setting up their own boards?

Then discuss it WP. I'm not interested in discussing it, but if you want to, then do. If people don't want to engage, don't be surprised, but you can't force people to be interested.

why would you start a discussion about the plight of men in an area labelled Feminism/Women's Rights?

OK, then if that happens, open a new thread and call it "Domestic Violence Against Men". Anyone who you feel is not playing by the rules, you can say "look at the thread title, if you're not interested, don't join in".

men do post there without being told or made to feel they are unwelcome though?

I do see your point WP. Men are also affected by the patriarchy, they also have to live up to an image. That sucks for them and I am interested in gender constructs.

However, I also feel that talking about DV against women, which is a massive problem, alongside DV against men, which is a problem, sure, but not a massive on, minimises the effect that DV has on women as a group.

I'm not persuaded it's a feminist issue because men suffer violence at the hands of other men mostly - domestic, or outside the kebab shop any minute now

So what we are saying is

"Look at the title and if people don't like views expressed tell people to go away"

Yeah ok... thats free speech and not pushing people out of conversation...

this is PRECISELY the point that is bothering people.