FWR split continued

[RebeccaMumsnet]

We have decided to start a new thread about this as the other thread was near capacity and taking a while to load.

Here is Justine's post from earlier on

We can give a Radical Feminism topic a go if that's what people want and see if it works. Obviously we need to be crystal clear that no one is obliged to post in one particular place and no one should feel excluded from any topic but we could test it out, and see if it helps resolve tensions. We'll do that in the next few days.

There are a couple of other things to think about as well.

First, those who come onto FWR to derail and inflame. We acknowledge that we have been too slow in the past to spot these posters for what they were. We're sorry about that and hope we're a lot quicker at dealing with them now. We're all for opinions but we do draw the line at posters whose only obvious intent is to goad.

And secondly, this idea that FWR can be an unwelcoming place to those who aren't following the 'party line'. Judging by posts on recent threads and by our inbox this is a view of a significant number of Mumsnetters and obviously that's not a healthy situation. Mumsnet is a place for discussion and for diverse opinion and it's the exchange of ideas and tolerance of differing opinions that makes it the board it is.

We do hope threads like this help to clear the air a bit and remind everyone that, whatever the differences of opinion, the FWR board will only ever be the stimulating, thought-provoking, enriching place we'd all like it to be if people feel that they can express themselves without being jumped on.

Please do continue to let us know your thoughts.

Himalaya, I was just addressing all of those who post on FWR who say they are not feminists but are about equality. Or who say they are feminists, but then post from a pov that is not recognising the inequality inherent in our society but that man=woman and an issue should be judged on that basis. And Equalist board would be a home for all, if a separate home is needed, which I don't actually think is necessary. Twas merely a suggestion.

Please don't infer that I think that feminism = the superiority of women.

OK well I do BDSM. I don't know if I'm pro-BDSM, that suggests I want everyone to go out and do it and I really don't care.

To me, you came across as defensive.

Would I like a sex positive topic? I don't really know. Or care. I just want people to stop having a go all the time.

Prolesworth - I agree with you I can't work out why MNHQ thought that was a good idea either,

Well I am pro porn and supportive of sex work and sex workers. And I like BDSM. I don't feel that disqualifies me from posting on the FWR board and no one has ever actually told me to fuck off out of it, either. If there was a new board specially for sex-positive liberal feminists, I don't suppose I would mind much either way. People would probably pop up on it going Eurgh, you're all wierdos, think of your immortal soul as well as How can you call yourself a feminist. And I would metaphorically kick their heads in engage, or not, depending on my mood on any given day.

I think it's growing on me -- Cafe/Support/Feminist Analysis.

I'd also like to really support what Hmm said earlier -- that we should all own up to our roles in things and try to move on, with a clean slate.

I think it's striking that the F4J/MRA events have been mentioned so often on these threads. I know it must have been awful -- really, I do, I have gotten death threats in real life (hand-delivered to my workplace, which years later was actually shot up by some psycho). I know the fear and vulnerability that comes with that and the anger at having feelings of safety snatched away, of having a nice space ruined.

But the thing is, you can't let it ruin your life, or poison your encounters with other people going forward. If it makes you hostile or defensive, if it ruins your space, if you keep focusing on it, then they keep on winning. Don't you think F4J would love to see how often they are being mentioned here?

At the same time, those of us who did not go through that should try to understand what people went through, understand we might say things that are triggering. We should be supportive.

But most of all, I don't think we should give any of the bastards that come on here to cause trouble, any further satisfaction. It sounds like MN are willing to be more protective, it looks like there's lots of new people on the section -- can we use all this as an opportunity to move forward? To put all the bad stuff behind us?

I don't take it personally, ES. But others do - that's why there are these threads all the time! I was just pointing out the mechanism.

dittany, read the WHOLE post.

Justine said:
But if that's not the solution then tell us what you think is?

I agree that it wasn't what you wanted, and not what most of the rad fems wanted. But it was also what a lot of other people didn't want too. And have expressed that. FOR THE SAME REASONS.

You don't need to go into auto-victim response. You actually have support.

FWIW one thing we are happy to do at HQ is put our hands up and change things if we have made a wrong call. Please do keep your suggestions coming.

the thing is, it isn't just the usual and none too subtle shit stirrers - some quite normal, genuine MNers have reported problems, whether that is off the back of the shit stirrers creating a plausible impression of problems where none exist or whether there are problems is hard to know isn't it?

I like the boards as they are, lots of people showing how highly they value the space by posting at the moment. How will it be decided MNHQ?

(on other hand am not in favour of such tough rules that I fall foul of them easily too )

""Point is, some people don't want to change the status quo as it suits them fine. I think that's obvious to anyone following this discussion.'

Could you expand Eclectic?"

Which part? As I said, some people are happy with the fwr board as it is and it suits them... That's obvious from this discussion. What part needs expansion?

@Alameda

(on other hand am not in favour of such tough rules that I fall foul of them easily too )

Our rules are fairly simple though.
Attack the argument not the poster.
Don't break the law.

As for how it will be decided, we'll keep reading for the time being.

It's not sweeping dittany, it's an accurate summary...

Aye -

No didn't mean to infer that at all.

More in the same way the radfems don't want to be hived off onto a separate board I don't think people who base their feminism as part of a broader belief in human rights should have a fenced off area.

I wouldn't want to go post in the equalist area (....its not a word I'd heard before MN) but I wouldn't feel welcome on the Feminism board if there was a separate board for "people like me".

As I said I agree with you, the board should not be split into factions. Didn't mean to jump at you or anything - jjust that MNHQ seem a bit trigger happy at acting in suggestions tonight, so wanted to come back on that one!

Anyway, as much as this is an interesting debate, rl calls.

yes calm down dittany, you're sounding a bit shrill and it's not attractive

dittany, I've already said I'm not pro-BDSM so please don't identify me as such. Thanks.

Different perspectives are interesting, that's true.

I think I've made my position clear. Make a topic for 5ft1 posters who live in London and are sitting on a sofa and tell me I should post there because that's where my sort belong and I'll post there.

I couldn't care less. I really couldn't. Because I could still post on the other boards as well.

I like MN because I like talking feminism with people who are both really into feminism and women who have never thought about these issues before. There's really no other website that tackles feminism from the perspective of "normal" women (by normal I mean women who haven't thought much about feminism - not a great word to use but I can't think of a better one).