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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Fathers 4 Justice and their recent attacks on Mumsnet

999 replies

JustineMumsnet · 17/03/2012 09:28

Some of you may have noticed that a group called Fathers 4 Justice has been saying some pretty unpleasant things about us over the last couple of weeks. In an 'advert' which appeared first on Facebook and then in yesterday's edition of the I, the group claims Mumsnet 'promotes gender hatred', and labels 'men and boys as rapists, paedophiles and wife beaters'. It calls on advertisers to suspend advertising on Mumsnet.

Most people, I'm quite sure, will see the adverts and the 'campaign' behind them for precisely what they are: a naked attempt to court publicity by a group of people who for whatever reason appear to have tired of climbing cranes in superhero outfits. (And, just coincidentally, in the run up to Mothers' Day). In fact it feels a bit like having a particularly irritating toddler repeatedly prodding you with a stick to get some attention.

By and large it seemed most sensible to ignore them, not least because we've had our hands quite full with stuff that actually matters, like Mumsnet's 'We believe you' campaign to dispel rape myths.

But since Fathers 4 Justice appear to have attracted some grown ups' attention, we thought we should tell you a bit about the background to this attack, the truth behind their allegations, and how they are trying to bully us and other organisations. Here are 10 things you should know.

  1. On March 3rd a Mumsnet user started a conversation about a poster campaign being touted on Mumsnet's Facebook wall by Fathers 4 Justice, and the fact that Fathers 4 Justice was bombarding a number of sites with this troubling image.
  1. A conversation then ensued on Mumsnet about Fathers 4 Justice and their tactics which some members of Fathers 4 Justice joined. Some Mumsnetters said some pretty harsh things.
  1. We deleted a number of posts that broke our forum guidelines regarding personal attacks. In total we deleted 70 posts from the thread which went on over the next few days and reached 1000 posts in total. 60 were posts were made by regular Mumsnet members, ten or so by new joiners from Fathers 4 Justice. Our community managers reminded users to follow forum guidelines on nine separate occasions and at least one prolific Mumsnetter left the site in protest at our deletion policy.
  1. On March 7th and March 8th MNHQ received a series of emails from the Campaign Director of Fathers 4 Justice containing threats of legal action and a threat to contact our advertisers. At the same time comments on the Fathers 4 Justice Facebook page describing Mumsnetters as 'barking mad harridans', 'weird sex obsessed paranoid perverts' and 'child abusing contact blockers' were left unmoderated. As were comments that described me variously as a 'dried up old hag', 'an evil woman' and having an 'IQ that would return a negative score'.
  1. On March 11th Fathers 4 Justice posted another attack ad this time accusing M&S of 'sponsoring hateful, bigoted and prejudiced comments about men and boys on Mumsnet' and demanding that M&S withdraw all advertising on Mumsnet or face a boycott. It accused the company of 'serving up gender hatred for Mother's Day'.
  1. Other organisations have experienced similar bullying tactics. In recent weeks Fathers 4 Justice have targeted the lone parents' support charity, Gingerbread, jamming up its telephone helplines. Senior NGO staff have told us they felt too intimidated to speak out against them.
  1. The suggestion that Mumsnet encourages gender hatred would be funny if it were not so offensive - and plain silly. The central aim of Mumsnet is to make parents' (mothers' and fathers') lives easier. There are many and varied opinions on the site and no one Mumsnet party line prevails, save for the view that we respect diverse opinion. We do not pre-moderate or vet comments made to our discussion boards of which there are around 30 000 every day. Men are and always have been extremely welcome on Mumsnet - we have a Dadsnet forum for Dads to talk directly with other men should they wish. We estimate that around 5-10% of our 2 million odd monthly users are men.

Of course you can always find plenty of Mumsnetters whinging about their male partners' shortcomings - more than there are whinging about their female partners' shortcomings - but generalisations are swiftly pounced on and we do not tolerate gender hatred, or any other kind of hatred for that matter (save maybe hatred of Fruitshoots). We encourage people to be civil and supportive and, in the main, most people are.

  1. Fathers 4 Justice campaigns for fathers to have access to their children following separation or divorce. Its founder, Matt O'Connor, says parents have 'fewer rights than a terrorist'. The organisation was temporarily disbanded in 2006 after it emerged that some of its members had plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son Leo. Fathers 4 Justice boasts that it is 'the most controversial and high profile pressure group of modern times' but it has struggled to win public attention since abandoning its eye-catching tactic of scaling tall structures in superhero costumes. In recent weeks it has targeted Cafcass, the body responsible for protecting the rights of children in court proceedings, Gingerbread, the charity for single parents, (which it claimed supported 'the abuse of children') and Mumsnet. It has also, somewhat mysteriously, branded London 2012 'the fatherless games'.
  1. We believe that the issue of father's access to children is important and needs to be discussed. We understand that many Fathers 4 Justice campaigners are driven by intense personal anger over what they feel is injustice they have suffered in their own cases. But the recent actions the group have taken against Mumsnet and others constitute plain and simple bullying and intimidation and only harm its cause.
  1. Reading this, you may well already be spitting tacks by now. Please do remember that's precisely what Fathers 4 Justice want. If you post on the subject please keep it civil. We won't be bullied, but we don't want to be dragged into the mire either.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
QueenOfFlippingEverything · 17/03/2012 13:04

Thank you Justine Thanks

Doobydoo · 17/03/2012 13:06

Misogynists they are.(excuse Yoda style ds2 watching Starwars)
Mand s here I come hurrah

TunipTheVegemal · 17/03/2012 13:09

will be spending money in M&S as soon as I get a chance. (though probably not on Per Una....)

LadySybilDeChocolate · 17/03/2012 13:11

What sort of role models are they for their children if this is how they behave? The mothers of their children are sensible to keep their children away from such a bad influence. They are nothing but bullies and I have no sympathy for them at all.

I'll pop into M&S as soon as I can.

sfxmum · 17/03/2012 13:13

I was completely unaware of this
I think parents when separating should think more about the children's needs and less about scoring points at the expense of each other and using the children to get at one another
It is good to remember who are the adults and who are the children, most people manage it just fine, seem not all

Mumsnet has grown and has a degree of influence so attacks are to be expected, 'journalists' use it all the time to receive hits and notoriety however briefly
I expect that by providing a thoughtful and adult response the contrast will be starker about who is trying to score cheap points and who is dealing with serious issues

cornsilkidy · 17/03/2012 13:13

will be popping into M&S today also

ShitThatsALotOfMoney · 17/03/2012 13:15

I feel really sad that F4J have gone this route for cheap attention seeking headlines. I have a close friend who is a devoted father and is seeking more contact with his children in difficult circumstances. F4J are really not helping the average dad looking for a more balanced custody arrangement. Can't they see they are damaging their own reputation and therefore any help they could offer fathers that need it.

ShitThatsALotOfMoney · 17/03/2012 13:19

Also, I doubt M&S are too worried about a F4J boycott. I bet at least 70% of their customers are women and most of their male customers are older so less likely to be involved in F4J.

Columbia999 · 17/03/2012 13:24

I'm a bit taken aback by the number of women who are posting support on the F4J Facebook page! Shock

MiseryBusiness · 17/03/2012 13:24

I had seen the thread about F4J a few days ago but hadn't realised they had taken it so far.

Have just looked at their FB page for the 1st time too.

It's a shame they feel the need to use such underhand tactics to promote themselves.

I seems to me it would have been far better to have contacted MN and tried to get help from the members here rather than isolate themselves.

MiseryBusiness · 17/03/2012 13:28

I too am sitting here like Shock reading their FB page.

ThisWeekonFancyPuffin · 17/03/2012 13:32

Ahhh Fathers4Justice, because nothing says I love my children quite like drawing messages on them.

Hmm
StewieGriffinsMom · 17/03/2012 13:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

swallowedAfly · 17/03/2012 13:38

or putting gaffa tape over their mouths and plastering them all over the internet looking like a bdsm porn image.

cornsilksity · 17/03/2012 13:39

where is the MN FB page?

cornsilksity · 17/03/2012 13:40

okay found it

StewieGriffinsMom · 17/03/2012 14:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LadySybilDeChocolate · 17/03/2012 14:07

I can't find it. Blush

I'd contact the police if they are threatening you Stewie. There's no need for it. I hope you're OK.

LadySybilDeChocolate · 17/03/2012 14:10

Oh, found it. Doh!

Stewie, take a screen shot (Prnt Scrn button) and report it to the police. To put someone in fear of violence is assault.

StateofConfusion · 17/03/2012 14:11

Hear hear justine.

I find there opinion of our community rather laughable, since I know of atleast 5 dads who lurk/post and think its great here.

And fwiw I LOVE men Grin

StewieGriffinsMom · 17/03/2012 14:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NonnoMum · 17/03/2012 14:14

Well done, Justine.
If you were to consider legal action on the personal attacks against you, I would be more than happy to do so.
Don't be intimidated.

LadySybilDeChocolate · 17/03/2012 14:15

Did you get it before it went 'poof'?

mcmooncup · 17/03/2012 14:19

Hope you got it before it went. 'He' is obviously reading this thread

Oxygen

FluffyWuffyCuntyKins · 17/03/2012 14:22

Fab post Justine.