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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Fathers 4 Justice and their recent attacks on Mumsnet

999 replies

JustineMumsnet · 17/03/2012 09:28

Some of you may have noticed that a group called Fathers 4 Justice has been saying some pretty unpleasant things about us over the last couple of weeks. In an 'advert' which appeared first on Facebook and then in yesterday's edition of the I, the group claims Mumsnet 'promotes gender hatred', and labels 'men and boys as rapists, paedophiles and wife beaters'. It calls on advertisers to suspend advertising on Mumsnet.

Most people, I'm quite sure, will see the adverts and the 'campaign' behind them for precisely what they are: a naked attempt to court publicity by a group of people who for whatever reason appear to have tired of climbing cranes in superhero outfits. (And, just coincidentally, in the run up to Mothers' Day). In fact it feels a bit like having a particularly irritating toddler repeatedly prodding you with a stick to get some attention.

By and large it seemed most sensible to ignore them, not least because we've had our hands quite full with stuff that actually matters, like Mumsnet's 'We believe you' campaign to dispel rape myths.

But since Fathers 4 Justice appear to have attracted some grown ups' attention, we thought we should tell you a bit about the background to this attack, the truth behind their allegations, and how they are trying to bully us and other organisations. Here are 10 things you should know.

  1. On March 3rd a Mumsnet user started a conversation about a poster campaign being touted on Mumsnet's Facebook wall by Fathers 4 Justice, and the fact that Fathers 4 Justice was bombarding a number of sites with this troubling image.
  1. A conversation then ensued on Mumsnet about Fathers 4 Justice and their tactics which some members of Fathers 4 Justice joined. Some Mumsnetters said some pretty harsh things.
  1. We deleted a number of posts that broke our forum guidelines regarding personal attacks. In total we deleted 70 posts from the thread which went on over the next few days and reached 1000 posts in total. 60 were posts were made by regular Mumsnet members, ten or so by new joiners from Fathers 4 Justice. Our community managers reminded users to follow forum guidelines on nine separate occasions and at least one prolific Mumsnetter left the site in protest at our deletion policy.
  1. On March 7th and March 8th MNHQ received a series of emails from the Campaign Director of Fathers 4 Justice containing threats of legal action and a threat to contact our advertisers. At the same time comments on the Fathers 4 Justice Facebook page describing Mumsnetters as 'barking mad harridans', 'weird sex obsessed paranoid perverts' and 'child abusing contact blockers' were left unmoderated. As were comments that described me variously as a 'dried up old hag', 'an evil woman' and having an 'IQ that would return a negative score'.
  1. On March 11th Fathers 4 Justice posted another attack ad this time accusing M&S of 'sponsoring hateful, bigoted and prejudiced comments about men and boys on Mumsnet' and demanding that M&S withdraw all advertising on Mumsnet or face a boycott. It accused the company of 'serving up gender hatred for Mother's Day'.
  1. Other organisations have experienced similar bullying tactics. In recent weeks Fathers 4 Justice have targeted the lone parents' support charity, Gingerbread, jamming up its telephone helplines. Senior NGO staff have told us they felt too intimidated to speak out against them.
  1. The suggestion that Mumsnet encourages gender hatred would be funny if it were not so offensive - and plain silly. The central aim of Mumsnet is to make parents' (mothers' and fathers') lives easier. There are many and varied opinions on the site and no one Mumsnet party line prevails, save for the view that we respect diverse opinion. We do not pre-moderate or vet comments made to our discussion boards of which there are around 30 000 every day. Men are and always have been extremely welcome on Mumsnet - we have a Dadsnet forum for Dads to talk directly with other men should they wish. We estimate that around 5-10% of our 2 million odd monthly users are men.

Of course you can always find plenty of Mumsnetters whinging about their male partners' shortcomings - more than there are whinging about their female partners' shortcomings - but generalisations are swiftly pounced on and we do not tolerate gender hatred, or any other kind of hatred for that matter (save maybe hatred of Fruitshoots). We encourage people to be civil and supportive and, in the main, most people are.

  1. Fathers 4 Justice campaigns for fathers to have access to their children following separation or divorce. Its founder, Matt O'Connor, says parents have 'fewer rights than a terrorist'. The organisation was temporarily disbanded in 2006 after it emerged that some of its members had plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son Leo. Fathers 4 Justice boasts that it is 'the most controversial and high profile pressure group of modern times' but it has struggled to win public attention since abandoning its eye-catching tactic of scaling tall structures in superhero costumes. In recent weeks it has targeted Cafcass, the body responsible for protecting the rights of children in court proceedings, Gingerbread, the charity for single parents, (which it claimed supported 'the abuse of children') and Mumsnet. It has also, somewhat mysteriously, branded London 2012 'the fatherless games'.
  1. We believe that the issue of father's access to children is important and needs to be discussed. We understand that many Fathers 4 Justice campaigners are driven by intense personal anger over what they feel is injustice they have suffered in their own cases. But the recent actions the group have taken against Mumsnet and others constitute plain and simple bullying and intimidation and only harm its cause.
  1. Reading this, you may well already be spitting tacks by now. Please do remember that's precisely what Fathers 4 Justice want. If you post on the subject please keep it civil. We won't be bullied, but we don't want to be dragged into the mire either.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
HandMadeTail · 17/03/2012 16:24

Thanks for the post, Justine.

I'm sure many of us know people in the situation that F4J are purporting to help. Unfortunately, they are not helping these people, they are too busy with their controversial antics.

But if those fathers came to MN they would get both moral support, and often really helpful advice either from professional people or people who have been in a similar position.

happybubblebrain · 17/03/2012 16:29

I was in M&S today and it looked very, very busy.
Good old M&S.

AnyFucker · 17/03/2012 16:38

Very dignified response. Thanks Justine. It's great to see the whole site pull together on such a serious matter as this.

Hope you are ok, SGM

runningforthebusinheels · 17/03/2012 16:39

I seem to spend a fortune in M&S - dc clothes, dh clothes, underwear, (but not per una strangely enough Wink ), food, flowers. Love M&S.

fivegomadindorset · 17/03/2012 16:52

Well he has just managed to get himself arrested for stripping outside M&S.

Onesunnymorningin2012 · 17/03/2012 16:53

Justine, this is a great response.

I love MN even though I'm not a parent. There are some terrific dads on here, and I sympathise with those who have had problems. But I don't agree with F4J or their tactics.

AliceHurled · 17/03/2012 16:55

Thanks Justine. Got you these Thanks from M and S. They do do a lovely range of blooms.

LadySybilDeChocolate · 17/03/2012 16:57

This is turning into a M&S appreciation thread! Grin

runningforthebusinheels · 17/03/2012 16:58

I think M&S will know which side their bread is buttered Wink

LadySybilDeChocolate · 17/03/2012 16:59
Grin
sairygamp · 17/03/2012 17:01

Apparently Matt O Conner has been arrested outside M and S in Marble Arch for stripping naked in protest .

LadySybilDeChocolate · 17/03/2012 17:02

Seriously? Grin ROLF!

NormaStanleyFletcher · 17/03/2012 17:04

From their site...

"BREAKING NEWS - MATT O'CONNOR ARRESTED OUTSIDE MARKS & SPENCER MARBLE ARCH FOR STRIPPING OFF NAKED AND EXPOSING THE TRUTH ABOUT M&S SPONSORING GENDER HATRED..."

Not sure how Matt's gonads represent gender hatred Confused

Maybe I am missing something?

sairygamp · 17/03/2012 17:05

Very odd behaviour. Or maybe not, having forced myself to read some more of their posts.

LadySybilDeChocolate · 17/03/2012 17:06

Erm...that's really going to show the courts and their ex partners that they are responsible. Hmm

iceandsliceplease · 17/03/2012 17:07

Had he realised he was wearing M&S pants?

iceandsliceplease · 17/03/2012 17:08

Not sure how Matt's gonads represent gender hatred Confused

Laughing slightly too much at this Grin

Northernlurker · 17/03/2012 17:11

Interesting update. I don't think it's coincidental at all that F4J has targetted Mumsnet in a week when the site stands so firmly for a woman's voice through the we believe you campaign. Children need parents. Parents need to have a relationship with their children. Nobody needs bullies.

DillyTante · 17/03/2012 17:14

So they are targeting m&s solely for their adverts on mn?

They aren't as good at campaigning as we are, are they?

NormaStanleyFletcher · 17/03/2012 17:14

ice Grin

AyeRobot · 17/03/2012 17:16

My, what a cock!

Is what people who saw the unveiling were saying...

Giyadas · 17/03/2012 17:18
AyeRobot · 17/03/2012 17:18

Sorry, Justine, I couldn't resist.

Lovely clear post, Justine. That's all we're looking for, whether on MN or in the wider world on this issue.

msrisotto · 17/03/2012 17:18

Coincidentally I bought loads of things in M&S today for 2 relatives birthdays and mothers day of course.

BoffinMum · 17/03/2012 17:22

Just wanted to say that I thought that was very well written, Justine, and I hope they take it to heart. F4J would achieve a lot more as a pressure group by entering the debate as thoughtful adults, rather than pulling stunts like this.

I hope at some point they consider a relaunch and a less provocative approach, so that the vast majority of people who believe parents should be co-operative and civil can offer them support. At the moment they are alienating many of their potential supporters, which is a terrible pity.