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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Fathers 4 Justice and their recent attacks on Mumsnet

999 replies

JustineMumsnet · 17/03/2012 09:28

Some of you may have noticed that a group called Fathers 4 Justice has been saying some pretty unpleasant things about us over the last couple of weeks. In an 'advert' which appeared first on Facebook and then in yesterday's edition of the I, the group claims Mumsnet 'promotes gender hatred', and labels 'men and boys as rapists, paedophiles and wife beaters'. It calls on advertisers to suspend advertising on Mumsnet.

Most people, I'm quite sure, will see the adverts and the 'campaign' behind them for precisely what they are: a naked attempt to court publicity by a group of people who for whatever reason appear to have tired of climbing cranes in superhero outfits. (And, just coincidentally, in the run up to Mothers' Day). In fact it feels a bit like having a particularly irritating toddler repeatedly prodding you with a stick to get some attention.

By and large it seemed most sensible to ignore them, not least because we've had our hands quite full with stuff that actually matters, like Mumsnet's 'We believe you' campaign to dispel rape myths.

But since Fathers 4 Justice appear to have attracted some grown ups' attention, we thought we should tell you a bit about the background to this attack, the truth behind their allegations, and how they are trying to bully us and other organisations. Here are 10 things you should know.

  1. On March 3rd a Mumsnet user started a conversation about a poster campaign being touted on Mumsnet's Facebook wall by Fathers 4 Justice, and the fact that Fathers 4 Justice was bombarding a number of sites with this troubling image.
  1. A conversation then ensued on Mumsnet about Fathers 4 Justice and their tactics which some members of Fathers 4 Justice joined. Some Mumsnetters said some pretty harsh things.
  1. We deleted a number of posts that broke our forum guidelines regarding personal attacks. In total we deleted 70 posts from the thread which went on over the next few days and reached 1000 posts in total. 60 were posts were made by regular Mumsnet members, ten or so by new joiners from Fathers 4 Justice. Our community managers reminded users to follow forum guidelines on nine separate occasions and at least one prolific Mumsnetter left the site in protest at our deletion policy.
  1. On March 7th and March 8th MNHQ received a series of emails from the Campaign Director of Fathers 4 Justice containing threats of legal action and a threat to contact our advertisers. At the same time comments on the Fathers 4 Justice Facebook page describing Mumsnetters as 'barking mad harridans', 'weird sex obsessed paranoid perverts' and 'child abusing contact blockers' were left unmoderated. As were comments that described me variously as a 'dried up old hag', 'an evil woman' and having an 'IQ that would return a negative score'.
  1. On March 11th Fathers 4 Justice posted another attack ad this time accusing M&S of 'sponsoring hateful, bigoted and prejudiced comments about men and boys on Mumsnet' and demanding that M&S withdraw all advertising on Mumsnet or face a boycott. It accused the company of 'serving up gender hatred for Mother's Day'.
  1. Other organisations have experienced similar bullying tactics. In recent weeks Fathers 4 Justice have targeted the lone parents' support charity, Gingerbread, jamming up its telephone helplines. Senior NGO staff have told us they felt too intimidated to speak out against them.
  1. The suggestion that Mumsnet encourages gender hatred would be funny if it were not so offensive - and plain silly. The central aim of Mumsnet is to make parents' (mothers' and fathers') lives easier. There are many and varied opinions on the site and no one Mumsnet party line prevails, save for the view that we respect diverse opinion. We do not pre-moderate or vet comments made to our discussion boards of which there are around 30 000 every day. Men are and always have been extremely welcome on Mumsnet - we have a Dadsnet forum for Dads to talk directly with other men should they wish. We estimate that around 5-10% of our 2 million odd monthly users are men.

Of course you can always find plenty of Mumsnetters whinging about their male partners' shortcomings - more than there are whinging about their female partners' shortcomings - but generalisations are swiftly pounced on and we do not tolerate gender hatred, or any other kind of hatred for that matter (save maybe hatred of Fruitshoots). We encourage people to be civil and supportive and, in the main, most people are.

  1. Fathers 4 Justice campaigns for fathers to have access to their children following separation or divorce. Its founder, Matt O'Connor, says parents have 'fewer rights than a terrorist'. The organisation was temporarily disbanded in 2006 after it emerged that some of its members had plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son Leo. Fathers 4 Justice boasts that it is 'the most controversial and high profile pressure group of modern times' but it has struggled to win public attention since abandoning its eye-catching tactic of scaling tall structures in superhero costumes. In recent weeks it has targeted Cafcass, the body responsible for protecting the rights of children in court proceedings, Gingerbread, the charity for single parents, (which it claimed supported 'the abuse of children') and Mumsnet. It has also, somewhat mysteriously, branded London 2012 'the fatherless games'.
  1. We believe that the issue of father's access to children is important and needs to be discussed. We understand that many Fathers 4 Justice campaigners are driven by intense personal anger over what they feel is injustice they have suffered in their own cases. But the recent actions the group have taken against Mumsnet and others constitute plain and simple bullying and intimidation and only harm its cause.
  1. Reading this, you may well already be spitting tacks by now. Please do remember that's precisely what Fathers 4 Justice want. If you post on the subject please keep it civil. We won't be bullied, but we don't want to be dragged into the mire either.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
JaneMare · 17/03/2012 11:52

is it ok to send F4J some worms to eat, i wonder?

poorbuthappy · 17/03/2012 11:55

I too generally applaud the response and agree with the ignoring thing up to a point.
But, at what point do/should we actually fight back?
When should/would we go legal? Confused

PattiMayor · 17/03/2012 11:57

Thanks Justine. Glad you're not letting them spoil your weekend :)

youarekidding · 17/03/2012 11:57

Yep, sephora perfectly put and exactly the irony I was pointing at. I just couldn't put it into words

NicholasTeakozy · 17/03/2012 11:59

I'm a divorced father. I have a great relationship with the mother of my children. I think this is where I differ from the members of F4J.

On the other hand, I'm fully behind the 'We Believe You' campaign.

NormaStanleyFletcher · 17/03/2012 11:59

Well said Justine.

CiderwithBuda · 17/03/2012 12:05

Great post Justine. I must admit some of this had passed me by. Sorry that MN are being bullied in this way.

Can I just point to to any members of F4J who may be reading this - many, many times I have read threads on here where mums are querying various things about their ex partner and access to their children. Quite often these women are hurt and angry and not overly keen on making life easy for the x to see the children. Every time lots of MNers will point out that children have the right to see BOTH parents and it is in BOTH parents interest to make access easy. Most objective people can see that it is always the children who suffer in these cases. There have also been threads started by dads who are looking for support in gaining access to their children. They receive the same support as any mum would in posting.

Mumsnet is 'by parents for parents'. It is a shame that F4J have started all of this as Mumsnet could have actually been a great help to them.

slug · 17/03/2012 12:10

The F4J ages have been commented on in Twitter over the last few days. The response has pretty much been the same as here. Eye rolling, pointing and laughing.

I don't think they've won themselves any fans in this latest spat

blackoutthesun · 17/03/2012 12:19

they are back on the fb page

OhDoGetAGrip · 17/03/2012 12:20

Maybe let them implicate themselves further on th FB page?

SpringHeeledJack · 17/03/2012 12:24

nice one, Justine I wuv you

the lasting impression I'm getting from this (especially following the links to their fb) is one of alarm- that there are men out there (I know in a minority) who 1. hate women and 2. REALLY hate women supporting each other

Shock

I'm afraid I have neglected mn of late, in favour of stripping wallpaper and making tea. As a direct result of this I have told dp that he has to do all my shit and his shit, while I come on here to show solidarity with my sisters (mostly on the Property and DIY section which is of course a hotbed of misandric hatespeak and vitriol)

(oh, and bifolding patio doors)

KalSkirata · 17/03/2012 12:27

Might have to go to M&S and I never go there!

VeniVidiVisa · 17/03/2012 12:37

Thank you Justine.

By the way, if ever there is a vacancy for a "barking mad harridan" at MN Towers, then I think you will find that I am fully qualified Grin

DharmaLovesDraco · 17/03/2012 12:40

Justine I think I luff you just a little bit for this - thank you Grin

Grumpla · 17/03/2012 12:47

Thanks for this response Justine.

I really do think F4J have shot themselves in the foot here. I'm particularly appalled that they have targeted Gingerbread and other charities too, organizations which exist to support parents and children.

As a mother of 2 boys I find the accusations of boy hatred particularly distasteful.

DillyTante · 17/03/2012 12:54

I could take FFJ more seriously if they behaved in a more dignified manner. Plus their whole ethos seems to actually neglect the welfare of the children.

I luff MN and M&S Grin

Codandchops · 17/03/2012 12:55

Sadly I think a topic which needs addressing (that of fathers contact with their children) had been made harder by F4J which seems to be run by those who have their own issues and agenda which they extrapolate to the entire population of non-resident fathers. My exH and I put our son first in everything and we spend time together as a family. It can be done if the adults are mature enough to put their personal differences aside for the children .
Sadly these men either have ex partners/wives who are NOT doing this or are using the organisation for their own purposes to intimidate and provoke. Says a great deal about some of them sadly.

JustineMumsnet · 17/03/2012 12:55

@poorbuthappy

I too generally applaud the response and agree with the ignoring thing up to a point. But, at what point do/should we actually fight back? When should/would we go legal? Confused

I think, as lots have suggested, popping into M&S this weekend would be a very neat way to fight back Smile.

Many thanks for all the support.

OP posts:
Bossybritches22 · 17/03/2012 12:55

What Dharma said.

I think I have a crush on a "barking mad harridan" Grin

I shall rise above baiting the bears, and swan off to Mr Marks & Mr Spencers excellent emporium!

Justine

please don't let these refrains from expletives misguided gentlemen spoil any of the MNHQ gangs Mothers Day.

mcmooncup · 17/03/2012 12:56

Listen to all you lot with opinions and stuff.
It disgusts me. Women. Talking. And not always in a worshipping manner about men. Pfffffftttttt.

I agree with Justine (which was just auto corrected to Justin's. Oh the irony) and I will button it and provide no oxygen.

Heart Mumsnet a little more Smile

Jux · 17/03/2012 12:57

Thank you, Justine. F4J have rather shot themselves in the foot with these tactics.

GetOrfMoiiLand · 17/03/2012 12:59

lol at Justin Grin

swallowedAfly · 17/03/2012 13:01

it would be a lot easier to be sympathetic if they didn't come on here or elsewhere saying that the vast majority of dv is just made up by women and women only have babies to use men as cash cows and get benefits Hmm never wins you too many friends on a predominantly female populated site where so many women in dv situations have come to to get support.

also the only ones who've been stigmatising children male or female that i can see is them saying things like the children of single mothers are doomed to be rioters and criminals etc. again Hmm

not to mention deliberate misrepresentation of facts and statistics in national poster campaigns and such such as saying that 1 in 3 children in the uk are fatherless Confused

incidentally what does being 'dried up' constitute? does one leak less? shrink? become a bit crumbly and flakey?

Doobydoo · 17/03/2012 13:02

Well said Justine.Am sure you had post written by a man bearing in mind your IQ Grinbut am sure you helped SmileAm sure my mum could have used Gingerbreads help some decades ago.

saladcreamwitheverything · 17/03/2012 13:03

F4J have to have ludicrous campaigns, as genuine cases where fathers are prevented from getting contact with their children are ignored in every other aspect of our so called legal system. I'm not talking about the twats who don't pay for their kids or those who've abused their partners. Of course that's wrong. I'm talking total bitches who hate their exes more than they love their kids. Unless you've been involved in this sort of battle, believe me you don't have the first clue of how unfair and biased the system is.

Me and my DH have had four years of it and spent £15000 on legal fees as proof.