Fathers 4 Justice and their recent attacks on Mumsnet

[JustineMumsnet]

Some of you may have noticed that a group called Fathers 4 Justice has been saying some pretty unpleasant things about us over the last couple of weeks. In an 'advert' which appeared first on Facebook and then in yesterday's edition of the I, the group claims Mumsnet 'promotes gender hatred', and labels 'men and boys as rapists, paedophiles and wife beaters'. It calls on advertisers to suspend advertising on Mumsnet.

Most people, I'm quite sure, will see the adverts and the 'campaign' behind them for precisely what they are: a naked attempt to court publicity by a group of people who for whatever reason appear to have tired of climbing cranes in superhero outfits. (And, just coincidentally, in the run up to Mothers' Day). In fact it feels a bit like having a particularly irritating toddler repeatedly prodding you with a stick to get some attention.

By and large it seemed most sensible to ignore them, not least because we've had our hands quite full with stuff that actually matters, like Mumsnet's 'We believe you' campaign to dispel rape myths.

But since Fathers 4 Justice appear to have attracted some grown ups' attention, we thought we should tell you a bit about the background to this attack, the truth behind their allegations, and how they are trying to bully us and other organisations. Here are 10 things you should know.

1. On March 3rd a Mumsnet user started a conversation about a poster campaign being touted on Mumsnet's Facebook wall by Fathers 4 Justice, and the fact that Fathers 4 Justice was bombarding a number of sites with this troubling image.

1. A conversation then ensued on Mumsnet about Fathers 4 Justice and their tactics which some members of Fathers 4 Justice joined. Some Mumsnetters said some pretty harsh things.

1. We deleted a number of posts that broke our forum guidelines regarding personal attacks. In total we deleted 70 posts from the thread which went on over the next few days and reached 1000 posts in total. 60 were posts were made by regular Mumsnet members, ten or so by new joiners from Fathers 4 Justice. Our community managers reminded users to follow forum guidelines on nine separate occasions and at least one prolific Mumsnetter left the site in protest at our deletion policy.

1. On March 7th and March 8th MNHQ received a series of emails from the Campaign Director of Fathers 4 Justice containing threats of legal action and a threat to contact our advertisers. At the same time comments on the Fathers 4 Justice Facebook page describing Mumsnetters as 'barking mad harridans', 'weird sex obsessed paranoid perverts' and 'child abusing contact blockers' were left unmoderated. As were comments that described me variously as a 'dried up old hag', 'an evil woman' and having an 'IQ that would return a negative score'.

1. On March 11th Fathers 4 Justice posted another attack ad this time accusing M&S of 'sponsoring hateful, bigoted and prejudiced comments about men and boys on Mumsnet' and demanding that M&S withdraw all advertising on Mumsnet or face a boycott. It accused the company of 'serving up gender hatred for Mother's Day'.

1. Other organisations have experienced similar bullying tactics. In recent weeks Fathers 4 Justice have targeted the lone parents' support charity, Gingerbread, jamming up its telephone helplines. Senior NGO staff have told us they felt too intimidated to speak out against them.

1. The suggestion that Mumsnet encourages gender hatred would be funny if it were not so offensive - and plain silly. The central aim of Mumsnet is to make parents' (mothers' and fathers') lives easier. There are many and varied opinions on the site and no one Mumsnet party line prevails, save for the view that we respect diverse opinion. We do not pre-moderate or vet comments made to our discussion boards of which there are around 30 000 every day. Men are and always have been extremely welcome on Mumsnet - we have a Dadsnet forum for Dads to talk directly with other men should they wish. We estimate that around 5-10% of our 2 million odd monthly users are men.

Of course you can always find plenty of Mumsnetters whinging about their male partners' shortcomings - more than there are whinging about their female partners' shortcomings - but generalisations are swiftly pounced on and we do not tolerate gender hatred, or any other kind of hatred for that matter (save maybe hatred of Fruitshoots). We encourage people to be civil and supportive and, in the main, most people are.

1. Fathers 4 Justice campaigns for fathers to have access to their children following separation or divorce. Its founder, Matt O'Connor, says parents have 'fewer rights than a terrorist'. The organisation was temporarily disbanded in 2006 after it emerged that some of its members had plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son Leo. Fathers 4 Justice boasts that it is 'the most controversial and high profile pressure group of modern times' but it has struggled to win public attention since abandoning its eye-catching tactic of scaling tall structures in superhero costumes. In recent weeks it has targeted Cafcass, the body responsible for protecting the rights of children in court proceedings, Gingerbread, the charity for single parents, (which it claimed supported 'the abuse of children') and Mumsnet. It has also, somewhat mysteriously, branded London 2012 'the fatherless games'.

1. We believe that the issue of father's access to children is important and needs to be discussed. We understand that many Fathers 4 Justice campaigners are driven by intense personal anger over what they feel is injustice they have suffered in their own cases. But the recent actions the group have taken against Mumsnet and others constitute plain and simple bullying and intimidation and only harm its cause.

10. Reading this, you may well already be spitting tacks by now. Please do remember that's precisely what Fathers 4 Justice want. If you post on the subject please keep it civil. We won't be bullied, but we don't want to be dragged into the mire either.

Many thanks.

Love purple's response, perfect.

someone very close to me met up with his (absent for most of life) father a few years ago. it was a sweet reunion until the dad got onto the subject of why he had left... apparently it was all the fault of the grandparents, who the dad still professed to loathe bitterly, some thirty years after the break up. he totally, utterly denied that he'd beaten his wife and abandoned her to go on weekend benders. it never happened, that's the grandparents twisting things etc.

of course the child, now a man, had seen it all with his own eyes, remembered the bruises and going round pubs looking for him etc... and there the reunion fatally stalled, as the child, now a man, realised for the first time that in fact he had always been better off without his father in his life.

Thanks Mme

Where is the ad placed?

So odd.

I was close at the time to a colleague, she met up several times as an adult, it didn't last long, she soon saw him for who he was with her own eyes and judgement, she abandoned him as he had her as a child in the end, he brought nothing to her life.

Should have explained, friends Father!

Aitch DH has had the same experience with his Mother; it's a hard thing to learn but SUCH a revelation when you get there. MIL did not leave, but was absent in every real way. He was lucky to have a Gran that loved him, a dad who cared and later on a wide circle of friends.

And that's it isn;t it? Human being are not perfect, sometimes it is a woman who cannot find a way to be a decent parent, and other times it is the Dad: there's no point in pretending it doesn't happen with bot genders, it quite simply does but it is a personal failure and not a gender thing.

And indeed MIL's mother did a bunk, leaving her to be raised by her dad.

And my Mum was abused in many ways by her dad.

And my friend's husband is never allowed near her children or the courts will remove him from both their care (sex offender on the run).

These cases are not related: they are just people- people who failed to be good parents.

yup, the mother soon replaced deadbeat bully number one with straight-out bully number two. some people just not meant to be parents...

Whoops. I have been deleted. Sorry MN. Will refrain from posting that again.

You have to pay for advertising on this site

Nice biased and inaccurate version of events there.

Ha ha! What a crock. I have complete faith in the fact that right thinking people will see straight through their hysteria and hyperbole to the facts.
The truth remains that anybody who wants to see how Mumsnet views men, husbands, fathers, sons, can simply come along and look through the thousands of old threads offering genuine even-handed advice and support.

filed under 'disgraceful, feminism, witches', oh no F4J never lower themselves to petty attacks and name calling

quantumvaleat seems to exist as an echo chamber for the O'Connors, there is not an original thought in it. Then it gets quoted on F4J and they all get excited that somebody from the outside is 'on their side'. Pathetic really.

I posted this on the blog but doubt it will see light of day

'I am certain this post will disappear as it did from the F4J FB page, but do you acknowledge that if you harm Mumsnet you will remove the support mechanism for a lot of vulnerable women? It was Mumsnet alone that carried me through 4 of my children being diagnosed with disability; my lovely husband having a resultant breakdown, the subsequent loss of our home. Is it fair to be willing to deny that as 'collaterel damage'? or is this argument- with a minority of Mumsnet posters, given that there are millions of registered users and most never go anywhere near the areas you find problematic- so all consuming that anyone else's needs are dismissed?'

From what I've gathered, most people not of f4j and mn think it's a stupid forum war and we should all grow up

Quantumvaleat isn't an outside view the author was one of the original F4J posters on the first thread in feminism, posts regularly on the F4J FB page and was at the "demo" on Saturday. Hardly unbiased.

ok, this FB page/woman. where the actual fuck are they getting that its a mner? considering the amount of people it could be considering their own tactics, and the amount of people who hate MN, it seems that they have assumed that it has come from mumsnet.

I dont believe that is true. I dont believe that a mner would do this. yet, it has been assumed that it is. can we bring our own lawsuuit, defamation or whatever against them? because they (and I mean the admin) are stirring up the crowd to a crescendo of hatred.

And, i know they are reading this, in fact, I hope they are because lies are always exposed. and accusations need to be proven. Give us the proof, rather than splash it in poisonous blogs.

I do think legal advice needs taking on some aspects

Sancti, yep. esp with that blog. its a pretty damning accusation to make.

They've had no outside press coverage and they're totally desperate which is why they're creating their own little articles. Don't give them the pleasure of responding, it just encourages them Mumsnet rocks - keep up the good work.

I agree with Suzy.

Read and comment and laugh but don't engage.

They have not named names, so I presume slander/defamation suits would not work and would only give them what they want - publicity.

There has been no mention of this in the press that I have seen, and that must be making them mad as hell.

As to the FB page - I said then and I will say now that I don't believe it was the work of a MNetter. The person who did that was versed in using Social Media to troll - he/she tweeted other organisations - and knew which organisations to contact.

Interestingly, the deleted blog link now appears to be "private"

Is it?

I am signed up as a follower after posting a comment; I am not tempted to read though tbh.