Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Site stuff

Join our Innovation Panel to try new features early and help make Mumsnet better.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Fathers 4 Justice and their recent attacks on Mumsnet

999 replies

JustineMumsnet · 17/03/2012 09:28

Some of you may have noticed that a group called Fathers 4 Justice has been saying some pretty unpleasant things about us over the last couple of weeks. In an 'advert' which appeared first on Facebook and then in yesterday's edition of the I, the group claims Mumsnet 'promotes gender hatred', and labels 'men and boys as rapists, paedophiles and wife beaters'. It calls on advertisers to suspend advertising on Mumsnet.

Most people, I'm quite sure, will see the adverts and the 'campaign' behind them for precisely what they are: a naked attempt to court publicity by a group of people who for whatever reason appear to have tired of climbing cranes in superhero outfits. (And, just coincidentally, in the run up to Mothers' Day). In fact it feels a bit like having a particularly irritating toddler repeatedly prodding you with a stick to get some attention.

By and large it seemed most sensible to ignore them, not least because we've had our hands quite full with stuff that actually matters, like Mumsnet's 'We believe you' campaign to dispel rape myths.

But since Fathers 4 Justice appear to have attracted some grown ups' attention, we thought we should tell you a bit about the background to this attack, the truth behind their allegations, and how they are trying to bully us and other organisations. Here are 10 things you should know.

  1. On March 3rd a Mumsnet user started a conversation about a poster campaign being touted on Mumsnet's Facebook wall by Fathers 4 Justice, and the fact that Fathers 4 Justice was bombarding a number of sites with this troubling image.
  1. A conversation then ensued on Mumsnet about Fathers 4 Justice and their tactics which some members of Fathers 4 Justice joined. Some Mumsnetters said some pretty harsh things.
  1. We deleted a number of posts that broke our forum guidelines regarding personal attacks. In total we deleted 70 posts from the thread which went on over the next few days and reached 1000 posts in total. 60 were posts were made by regular Mumsnet members, ten or so by new joiners from Fathers 4 Justice. Our community managers reminded users to follow forum guidelines on nine separate occasions and at least one prolific Mumsnetter left the site in protest at our deletion policy.
  1. On March 7th and March 8th MNHQ received a series of emails from the Campaign Director of Fathers 4 Justice containing threats of legal action and a threat to contact our advertisers. At the same time comments on the Fathers 4 Justice Facebook page describing Mumsnetters as 'barking mad harridans', 'weird sex obsessed paranoid perverts' and 'child abusing contact blockers' were left unmoderated. As were comments that described me variously as a 'dried up old hag', 'an evil woman' and having an 'IQ that would return a negative score'.
  1. On March 11th Fathers 4 Justice posted another attack ad this time accusing M&S of 'sponsoring hateful, bigoted and prejudiced comments about men and boys on Mumsnet' and demanding that M&S withdraw all advertising on Mumsnet or face a boycott. It accused the company of 'serving up gender hatred for Mother's Day'.
  1. Other organisations have experienced similar bullying tactics. In recent weeks Fathers 4 Justice have targeted the lone parents' support charity, Gingerbread, jamming up its telephone helplines. Senior NGO staff have told us they felt too intimidated to speak out against them.
  1. The suggestion that Mumsnet encourages gender hatred would be funny if it were not so offensive - and plain silly. The central aim of Mumsnet is to make parents' (mothers' and fathers') lives easier. There are many and varied opinions on the site and no one Mumsnet party line prevails, save for the view that we respect diverse opinion. We do not pre-moderate or vet comments made to our discussion boards of which there are around 30 000 every day. Men are and always have been extremely welcome on Mumsnet - we have a Dadsnet forum for Dads to talk directly with other men should they wish. We estimate that around 5-10% of our 2 million odd monthly users are men.

Of course you can always find plenty of Mumsnetters whinging about their male partners' shortcomings - more than there are whinging about their female partners' shortcomings - but generalisations are swiftly pounced on and we do not tolerate gender hatred, or any other kind of hatred for that matter (save maybe hatred of Fruitshoots). We encourage people to be civil and supportive and, in the main, most people are.

  1. Fathers 4 Justice campaigns for fathers to have access to their children following separation or divorce. Its founder, Matt O'Connor, says parents have 'fewer rights than a terrorist'. The organisation was temporarily disbanded in 2006 after it emerged that some of its members had plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son Leo. Fathers 4 Justice boasts that it is 'the most controversial and high profile pressure group of modern times' but it has struggled to win public attention since abandoning its eye-catching tactic of scaling tall structures in superhero costumes. In recent weeks it has targeted Cafcass, the body responsible for protecting the rights of children in court proceedings, Gingerbread, the charity for single parents, (which it claimed supported 'the abuse of children') and Mumsnet. It has also, somewhat mysteriously, branded London 2012 'the fatherless games'.
  1. We believe that the issue of father's access to children is important and needs to be discussed. We understand that many Fathers 4 Justice campaigners are driven by intense personal anger over what they feel is injustice they have suffered in their own cases. But the recent actions the group have taken against Mumsnet and others constitute plain and simple bullying and intimidation and only harm its cause.
  1. Reading this, you may well already be spitting tacks by now. Please do remember that's precisely what Fathers 4 Justice want. If you post on the subject please keep it civil. We won't be bullied, but we don't want to be dragged into the mire either.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
OhDoGetAGrip · 17/03/2012 11:01

I am guilty (under my usual nickname - not this one) of responding quite badly to their posts and even had one deleted. Blush

I shall ignore/rise above.

BIWI · 17/03/2012 11:01

Welcome to Mumsnet, vvverbatim Smile

Nyac · 17/03/2012 11:02

Very sorry to hear that Mumsnet and Gingerbread are being bullied by F4J, Justine. The Independent ad was outrageous as are their other tactics.

I did LOL at this:

"It has also, somewhat mysteriously, branded London 2012 'the fatherless games'."

I spent forty quid in M&S yesterday. On Mothers Day stuff.

nenevomito · 17/03/2012 11:03

Thanks Justine. I've been following what has happened on here and on Facebook and it's good to see a clear response.

It's a shame that f4j are unable to make their point without such bullying tactics.

nenevomito · 17/03/2012 11:05

P.S. Wasn't planning to go to M&S today but have decided to go and buy some mothers day stuff in support of the cause Wink

NorfolkNChance · 17/03/2012 11:06

Thank you Justine, a well measured response.

I hope that the attacks on Gingerbread and CAFCASS cease soon.

HugADalek · 17/03/2012 11:06

Says it all really when they are targeting charities and organisations that do nothing but offer support to single parents. Shooting yourself in the foot comes to mind.

AutumnLady · 17/03/2012 11:11

Thank you Justine for such a well thought out response. I mainly lurk on the boards and have deliberatly stayed off their threads as I would end up having a slanging match. I have had dealings with this group due to the nature of my job (politics) and can safely say they will move onto a new target in due course. Ignoring them, although very difficult, is the best policy. [Wine] all round to everyone Grin

QIelf · 17/03/2012 11:14

Because I dip in and out of mn, and because I don't like to get involved in bunfights, and because I'm not on fb, this has all pretty much passed me by. Blush

But ime there are many more single parent mothers on mn who would dearly love their children's fathers to be more involved, than those with exes who want more time with their children. So I wonder why F4J have spectacularly missed out on a great opportunity to help the fathers who see little of their children to see more of them, by buddying up with mn, in favour of attacking a site mostly used by mothers, many of whom aren't even single parents.

I can understand the anger, I don't understand why an aggressive campaign might be thought to achieve more than intelligence, wit and courtesy.

I'm going to M&S later too.

Columbia999 · 17/03/2012 11:17

Does F4J not realise that male lone parents are always made very welcome at Gingerbread groups as well? What a ridiculous target for them to choose.

southeastastra · 17/03/2012 11:18

i have looked on their facebook page and to be honest it's all over the place, what exactly has mn and m and s done Confused i have sons and don't see any male hatred on here, would be the first to complain if i did!

this seems a bit all over the place

TheSkiingGardener · 17/03/2012 11:18

Thank you for the information and reasoned response Justine. I fully support the rights of all parents to be allowed to be parents, but bullying and intimidation is not acceptable to achieve that.

I will be spending my money in M&S today too.

Nyac · 17/03/2012 11:19

'the most controversial and high profile pressure group of modern times'

It's interesting that they acknowledge that they are controversial and deliberately promote that image, but then get upset when people respond to that controversy.

It's like one rule for them etc etc

maristella · 17/03/2012 11:20

Surely to imply that all MNers think and act a certain way suggests that people are only absorbing what they want to absorb? Most threads will demonstrate that while there are (society wide) group norms, we have and exercise the right to express our own thoughts and ideas.

The accusation that we encourage gender hatred towards males would involve hatred towards our own precious and beloved boys? 'Say it with hatred' - gender hatred, much? Wow. I don't hate men, far from it.

Oh, and I don't need a superhero outfit to know that I am super Wink

Off to M&S I go....

NorfolkNChance · 17/03/2012 11:20
GetOrfMoiiLand · 17/03/2012 11:27

Well done Justine. I like the general tone of disdain. Grin

They really are contemptible aren't they.

Thanks to everyone else at MNHQ for how they have responded to this - there were some very heated and vitriolic comments against MNHQ on that thread this week and I think it has been dealt with very well.

Long live mumsnet indeed. I am pissed off that the week when the 'we believe you' campaign was launched this kind of shitstorm happens. God help us that we are not paying attention to the men.

QIelf · 17/03/2012 11:28
SoupDragon · 17/03/2012 11:32

I have just one question: Who left?

GetOrfMoiiLand · 17/03/2012 11:32

I nevery go in M&S, think will make a special excursion today to buy tights and extravagantly priced raspberry mousses, or something.

youarekidding · 17/03/2012 11:33

Thanks Justine.

Is it only me who can see the irony in their campaign?

SephoraRosebud · 17/03/2012 11:33

The reaction of F4J towards MumsNet and Gingerbread is identical to that of abusive men who don't want their wifes/partners to have friends and support thereby isolating them and allowing the abuse to continue.
The root of this bullying- on a much larger scale- is due to F4J feeling angry angry and scared that women now have national support networks and no longer have to feel alone and helpless if they are in an abusive relationship.

FruitShootsAndHeaves · 17/03/2012 11:34

we do not tolerate gender hatred, or any other kind of hatred for that matter (save maybe hatred of Fruitshoots)

Everyone hates me!

GetOrfMoiiLand · 17/03/2012 11:34

Great post sephora.

Angelico · 17/03/2012 11:47

Lol @ Bucharest and Fruitshoots

The funny thing is when F4J started I was actually very sympathetic to their cause, knowing a couple of really nice guys who had unfortunately been completely shafted by their ex-wives - yes, it does happen. The guys I knew felt powerless and I could really understand that frustration men have when courts grant orders which are then completely ignored. BUT (and here is the but) after the initial publicity stunts F4J never seems to have moved on. It's a shame because they do have an important point to make about individual cases of injustice. Unfortunately their points seem to get lost underneath their anger and the way they lash out.

I'm really glad MN is rising above this and MNetters too.

fabwoman · 17/03/2012 11:51

[shock Fruitshoots.