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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Fathers 4 Justice and their recent attacks on Mumsnet

999 replies

JustineMumsnet · 17/03/2012 09:28

Some of you may have noticed that a group called Fathers 4 Justice has been saying some pretty unpleasant things about us over the last couple of weeks. In an 'advert' which appeared first on Facebook and then in yesterday's edition of the I, the group claims Mumsnet 'promotes gender hatred', and labels 'men and boys as rapists, paedophiles and wife beaters'. It calls on advertisers to suspend advertising on Mumsnet.

Most people, I'm quite sure, will see the adverts and the 'campaign' behind them for precisely what they are: a naked attempt to court publicity by a group of people who for whatever reason appear to have tired of climbing cranes in superhero outfits. (And, just coincidentally, in the run up to Mothers' Day). In fact it feels a bit like having a particularly irritating toddler repeatedly prodding you with a stick to get some attention.

By and large it seemed most sensible to ignore them, not least because we've had our hands quite full with stuff that actually matters, like Mumsnet's 'We believe you' campaign to dispel rape myths.

But since Fathers 4 Justice appear to have attracted some grown ups' attention, we thought we should tell you a bit about the background to this attack, the truth behind their allegations, and how they are trying to bully us and other organisations. Here are 10 things you should know.

  1. On March 3rd a Mumsnet user started a conversation about a poster campaign being touted on Mumsnet's Facebook wall by Fathers 4 Justice, and the fact that Fathers 4 Justice was bombarding a number of sites with this troubling image.
  1. A conversation then ensued on Mumsnet about Fathers 4 Justice and their tactics which some members of Fathers 4 Justice joined. Some Mumsnetters said some pretty harsh things.
  1. We deleted a number of posts that broke our forum guidelines regarding personal attacks. In total we deleted 70 posts from the thread which went on over the next few days and reached 1000 posts in total. 60 were posts were made by regular Mumsnet members, ten or so by new joiners from Fathers 4 Justice. Our community managers reminded users to follow forum guidelines on nine separate occasions and at least one prolific Mumsnetter left the site in protest at our deletion policy.
  1. On March 7th and March 8th MNHQ received a series of emails from the Campaign Director of Fathers 4 Justice containing threats of legal action and a threat to contact our advertisers. At the same time comments on the Fathers 4 Justice Facebook page describing Mumsnetters as 'barking mad harridans', 'weird sex obsessed paranoid perverts' and 'child abusing contact blockers' were left unmoderated. As were comments that described me variously as a 'dried up old hag', 'an evil woman' and having an 'IQ that would return a negative score'.
  1. On March 11th Fathers 4 Justice posted another attack ad this time accusing M&S of 'sponsoring hateful, bigoted and prejudiced comments about men and boys on Mumsnet' and demanding that M&S withdraw all advertising on Mumsnet or face a boycott. It accused the company of 'serving up gender hatred for Mother's Day'.
  1. Other organisations have experienced similar bullying tactics. In recent weeks Fathers 4 Justice have targeted the lone parents' support charity, Gingerbread, jamming up its telephone helplines. Senior NGO staff have told us they felt too intimidated to speak out against them.
  1. The suggestion that Mumsnet encourages gender hatred would be funny if it were not so offensive - and plain silly. The central aim of Mumsnet is to make parents' (mothers' and fathers') lives easier. There are many and varied opinions on the site and no one Mumsnet party line prevails, save for the view that we respect diverse opinion. We do not pre-moderate or vet comments made to our discussion boards of which there are around 30 000 every day. Men are and always have been extremely welcome on Mumsnet - we have a Dadsnet forum for Dads to talk directly with other men should they wish. We estimate that around 5-10% of our 2 million odd monthly users are men.

Of course you can always find plenty of Mumsnetters whinging about their male partners' shortcomings - more than there are whinging about their female partners' shortcomings - but generalisations are swiftly pounced on and we do not tolerate gender hatred, or any other kind of hatred for that matter (save maybe hatred of Fruitshoots). We encourage people to be civil and supportive and, in the main, most people are.

  1. Fathers 4 Justice campaigns for fathers to have access to their children following separation or divorce. Its founder, Matt O'Connor, says parents have 'fewer rights than a terrorist'. The organisation was temporarily disbanded in 2006 after it emerged that some of its members had plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son Leo. Fathers 4 Justice boasts that it is 'the most controversial and high profile pressure group of modern times' but it has struggled to win public attention since abandoning its eye-catching tactic of scaling tall structures in superhero costumes. In recent weeks it has targeted Cafcass, the body responsible for protecting the rights of children in court proceedings, Gingerbread, the charity for single parents, (which it claimed supported 'the abuse of children') and Mumsnet. It has also, somewhat mysteriously, branded London 2012 'the fatherless games'.
  1. We believe that the issue of father's access to children is important and needs to be discussed. We understand that many Fathers 4 Justice campaigners are driven by intense personal anger over what they feel is injustice they have suffered in their own cases. But the recent actions the group have taken against Mumsnet and others constitute plain and simple bullying and intimidation and only harm its cause.
  1. Reading this, you may well already be spitting tacks by now. Please do remember that's precisely what Fathers 4 Justice want. If you post on the subject please keep it civil. We won't be bullied, but we don't want to be dragged into the mire either.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
DowagersHump · 20/03/2012 11:41

Ooh you caaaaaah Aitch Shock

AitchTwoOhOneTwo · 20/03/2012 11:44

i want f4j to put it on their latest poster... Grin

IjustLOVEmen · 20/03/2012 11:47

I think the poster has gone up.

Stuck to the O'Connor fridge.

"That'll learn them wimmin"

AbsofAwesomeness · 20/03/2012 11:50

I can't believe you insulted his hair

There are so many other things you could have insulted as well. Why, thanks to the nudey pictures I saw yesterday, I know that you could also have insulted his flabbiness, pasty skin ... so many things.

Hullygully · 20/03/2012 11:51

GOOD LORD

and

Oh bum I missed it all.

Hullygully · 20/03/2012 11:51

what does this 38 pager contain? In a senetence if you please.

Pinot · 20/03/2012 11:52

HULLY!

Where have you been?

GrimmaTheNome · 20/03/2012 11:52

The tragic thing is, is that there are fathers/parents who really need assistance in getting access to their children, finding their way through the court system, who do join F4J, and in the end are used by M O'C for his never-ending ego trips

ITA. I've a friend who had a very difficult situation (He has residency now, it became clear to all eventually this was what was best for the child) - but I don't think his membership of F4J helped him in the least.

Hullygully · 20/03/2012 11:53

working Pinot working

tsk

SoupDragon · 20/03/2012 11:55

Yes, Goat, but it was meant to be live today according to the advert. One would have thought that they would be better organised.

Pinot · 20/03/2012 11:57

Shock Good grief. Whatever next.

(I thought you were a lazy bum like moi?)

TheLittlestGoat · 20/03/2012 11:58

Yes, of course Soup. I wouldn't expect such a shambles from them.

Oh. Wait.

Codandchops · 20/03/2012 11:59

PMSL at the thought about the poster going up only on the O'Connor's fridge - oh I do so hope they are reading this.Grin

Makes all their silly threats look rather......er.....silly!

Twats!

GrimmaTheNome · 20/03/2012 12:05

Please refrain from 'PMSL'. Men are really bad at that compared to women, you know (especially mothers), they may feel excluded.

MmeLindor. · 20/03/2012 12:19

I would call them sillybillies but don't want to get deleted.

Am finding it difficult to ignore, but will read and comment on it on here without engaging with them.

Hully
We needed you yesterday. How dare you have a RL when there is stuff like this going on?

I spent £100 in Simply Food today. Got slightly carried away with all the delicious looking yummy food. And the checkout girl astounded me by admitting she had never tasted Percy Pigs.

Don't M&S vet their staff? I find that really shocking. I might start a campaign about it.

SoupDragon · 20/03/2012 12:21

Silly billies is inciting male hatred - specifically of males called William. You need a more gender neutral name (Ignoring Billie Piper for the purposes of this)

Hullygully · 20/03/2012 12:21

I think they are Sex Gods of Raw Sex and Sex Power

They make me go hubba hubba

Hullygully · 20/03/2012 12:22

Where can I see the ad?

Must catch up

MmeLindor. · 20/03/2012 12:26

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo · 20/03/2012 12:28

lol at 'ignoring billie piper'.

SoupDragon · 20/03/2012 12:30

Lord - do you think she'll sue on the basis of females-called-Billie hatred? I didn't mean it like that, honest! Let's hope she doesn't take it out of context...

AIBUqatada · 20/03/2012 12:31

Has that ad actually been published anywhere other than on f4j's own sites and Mumsnet. Don't you find it troubling that in effect you are acting as their publishers every time you link to it? It is like welcoming in a tapeworm. Just ignore them.

thisisadifferentname · 20/03/2012 12:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

SanctiMoanyArse · 20/03/2012 12:39

That ad is laughable really,- how many posts a day?

Prats.

And I am pretty sure the man who raped me was male, judging by his possession of a penis (I would not use the term man to describe him however) so they can take that and self abuse with it, should they fancy it.

SmellsLikeTeenStrop · 20/03/2012 12:40

AIBU They'd be pissing themselves with joy over on the fb page if it had appeared in a papers. As it is, I think this time round members are being encouraged to print it off and distribute it personally.

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