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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Fathers 4 Justice and their recent attacks on Mumsnet

999 replies

JustineMumsnet · 17/03/2012 09:28

Some of you may have noticed that a group called Fathers 4 Justice has been saying some pretty unpleasant things about us over the last couple of weeks. In an 'advert' which appeared first on Facebook and then in yesterday's edition of the I, the group claims Mumsnet 'promotes gender hatred', and labels 'men and boys as rapists, paedophiles and wife beaters'. It calls on advertisers to suspend advertising on Mumsnet.

Most people, I'm quite sure, will see the adverts and the 'campaign' behind them for precisely what they are: a naked attempt to court publicity by a group of people who for whatever reason appear to have tired of climbing cranes in superhero outfits. (And, just coincidentally, in the run up to Mothers' Day). In fact it feels a bit like having a particularly irritating toddler repeatedly prodding you with a stick to get some attention.

By and large it seemed most sensible to ignore them, not least because we've had our hands quite full with stuff that actually matters, like Mumsnet's 'We believe you' campaign to dispel rape myths.

But since Fathers 4 Justice appear to have attracted some grown ups' attention, we thought we should tell you a bit about the background to this attack, the truth behind their allegations, and how they are trying to bully us and other organisations. Here are 10 things you should know.

  1. On March 3rd a Mumsnet user started a conversation about a poster campaign being touted on Mumsnet's Facebook wall by Fathers 4 Justice, and the fact that Fathers 4 Justice was bombarding a number of sites with this troubling image.
  1. A conversation then ensued on Mumsnet about Fathers 4 Justice and their tactics which some members of Fathers 4 Justice joined. Some Mumsnetters said some pretty harsh things.
  1. We deleted a number of posts that broke our forum guidelines regarding personal attacks. In total we deleted 70 posts from the thread which went on over the next few days and reached 1000 posts in total. 60 were posts were made by regular Mumsnet members, ten or so by new joiners from Fathers 4 Justice. Our community managers reminded users to follow forum guidelines on nine separate occasions and at least one prolific Mumsnetter left the site in protest at our deletion policy.
  1. On March 7th and March 8th MNHQ received a series of emails from the Campaign Director of Fathers 4 Justice containing threats of legal action and a threat to contact our advertisers. At the same time comments on the Fathers 4 Justice Facebook page describing Mumsnetters as 'barking mad harridans', 'weird sex obsessed paranoid perverts' and 'child abusing contact blockers' were left unmoderated. As were comments that described me variously as a 'dried up old hag', 'an evil woman' and having an 'IQ that would return a negative score'.
  1. On March 11th Fathers 4 Justice posted another attack ad this time accusing M&S of 'sponsoring hateful, bigoted and prejudiced comments about men and boys on Mumsnet' and demanding that M&S withdraw all advertising on Mumsnet or face a boycott. It accused the company of 'serving up gender hatred for Mother's Day'.
  1. Other organisations have experienced similar bullying tactics. In recent weeks Fathers 4 Justice have targeted the lone parents' support charity, Gingerbread, jamming up its telephone helplines. Senior NGO staff have told us they felt too intimidated to speak out against them.
  1. The suggestion that Mumsnet encourages gender hatred would be funny if it were not so offensive - and plain silly. The central aim of Mumsnet is to make parents' (mothers' and fathers') lives easier. There are many and varied opinions on the site and no one Mumsnet party line prevails, save for the view that we respect diverse opinion. We do not pre-moderate or vet comments made to our discussion boards of which there are around 30 000 every day. Men are and always have been extremely welcome on Mumsnet - we have a Dadsnet forum for Dads to talk directly with other men should they wish. We estimate that around 5-10% of our 2 million odd monthly users are men.

Of course you can always find plenty of Mumsnetters whinging about their male partners' shortcomings - more than there are whinging about their female partners' shortcomings - but generalisations are swiftly pounced on and we do not tolerate gender hatred, or any other kind of hatred for that matter (save maybe hatred of Fruitshoots). We encourage people to be civil and supportive and, in the main, most people are.

  1. Fathers 4 Justice campaigns for fathers to have access to their children following separation or divorce. Its founder, Matt O'Connor, says parents have 'fewer rights than a terrorist'. The organisation was temporarily disbanded in 2006 after it emerged that some of its members had plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son Leo. Fathers 4 Justice boasts that it is 'the most controversial and high profile pressure group of modern times' but it has struggled to win public attention since abandoning its eye-catching tactic of scaling tall structures in superhero costumes. In recent weeks it has targeted Cafcass, the body responsible for protecting the rights of children in court proceedings, Gingerbread, the charity for single parents, (which it claimed supported 'the abuse of children') and Mumsnet. It has also, somewhat mysteriously, branded London 2012 'the fatherless games'.
  1. We believe that the issue of father's access to children is important and needs to be discussed. We understand that many Fathers 4 Justice campaigners are driven by intense personal anger over what they feel is injustice they have suffered in their own cases. But the recent actions the group have taken against Mumsnet and others constitute plain and simple bullying and intimidation and only harm its cause.
  1. Reading this, you may well already be spitting tacks by now. Please do remember that's precisely what Fathers 4 Justice want. If you post on the subject please keep it civil. We won't be bullied, but we don't want to be dragged into the mire either.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
swallowedAfly · 20/03/2012 08:20

i think it's a give them enough rope scenario. they're perfectly able to totally sabotage themselves. the sad thing is that they are sabotaging dads who do have genuine problems accessing their children in the process by creating an image of them as spiteful, angry, bullies who hate women and are all about vengence on women rather than care for children Sad

SophieNeveu · 20/03/2012 08:34

My personal theory on the group is that for some there may have been some abuse or neglect in their family of origin and they are beyond devistated their own family they created broke down. Now instead of looking at why their family broke down, they join a grouo to feel part of a family again. Psychologically the groups behaviour to me looks like toddler power and control stuff! I don't doubt there may be some innocent members, who are having £30 taken off them for what? there is no FNF style helpline etc for the same subs. I am pretty sure there are also some that need to look to their behaviour and the cause and effect there! I also suspect as per the example given above there are also some frauds who can't be bothered to be parents, who don't want social exclusion , so they pretend they are kept from their children, when in reality they abandoned their children!

Blackduck · 20/03/2012 08:36

Does anyone know if that 'ad' has actually run, and where? Anyone with any sense can see its rubbish - single words taken out of context, could be talking about anything!

VivaLeBeaver · 20/03/2012 08:41

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

MadameBoolala · 20/03/2012 09:06

I really think that not engaging with them in any way is the best policy at the moment.

cornsilksit1 · 20/03/2012 09:08

let's just stop talking about them - they'll combust with rage

Bossybritches22 · 20/03/2012 09:11

Agree don't bait the bears......Grin

It was getting boring anyway. Wink

JL80 · 20/03/2012 09:30

Hi Sophie,

It's quite obvious that F4J's latest campaign will do nothing to change family law. That's because it isn't designed to. It's designed to get as much publicity for Matt O'Connor as possible. End of story, case closed. The vision and aims of the organisation have basically become the attention seeking methodology.

AnyFucker · 20/03/2012 09:47

I am glad one of my posts was deleted from last night, because it came across as too personal, even though it meant as ironic

I am not "Jane Jones" though

JL80 · 20/03/2012 09:51

Anyone interested in the hypocrisy of F4J, have a look at this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/politics/1432472-Some-Thoughts-on-F4J

Matt O'Connor's "Icecreamist" business PR paid to place an ad on which website..? That's write, Mumsnet! You know, the one that they are now claiming are promoting gender hatred?

This is one of the many reasons that they cannot be taken seriously. They are attention seeking and publicity hungry, that's about it.

UnChartered · 20/03/2012 09:57
Grin Thanks
runningforthebusinheels · 20/03/2012 10:01

I think F4J have nowhere left to go - their antics so far have failed to get a single headline - I think the media also don't what to give them the oxygen of publicity either. Good thing too.

Ignoring really is the best thing - please stop giving them the attention they crave. I missed all the excitement last night because of rl stuff, so I haven't a clue what went on.

I would just like to say for the record though, that one of my posts was used on their ad. They quoted "women hating little boys."

My full post was written in the context of the "mumsnet sucks" bloke posting on F4J's page in solidarity. At the time their were a lot of extremely offensive posts against mothers being put on their page. And my post was "ahh isn't that sweet. All the women hating little boys have found each other." Their ad makes no sense to me whatsoever, I can't even make out what they're trying to say? And I won't be bullied off mumsnet by them quoting my posts.

runningforthebusinheels · 20/03/2012 10:06

Oh and finally, oI'd just like to repeat one of posts from the other thread that went poof. Hopefully my final word on the subject Wink

I find the actions of F4J to be so very immature. They are behaving in an extremely threatening way to Justine and MNHQ, and they are being incredibly immature if they think that their bullying and intimidation will have any effect whatsoever on organisations such as MN and M&S.

JL80 · 20/03/2012 10:34

@ runningforthebusinessheels

I think that they just aren't newsworthy any more. O'Connor embarked on a hunger strike that got no press and ended, pathetically, after a week. He constantly refers to being followed by Special Branch - he is, basically, a fantasist. The media would give them attention if they thought anyone was interested. But no-one is.

Mumsnet is a very successful and active business and F4J are jealous of it.

Voidka · 20/03/2012 10:56

He doesnt look like he has gone hungry in a very long time!

MrsArchieTheInventor · 20/03/2012 11:06

Sorry if this has been posted already (at the last count there were 916 posts and I can't read them all) but... maybe invite Matt O'Connor for a live webchat?

I don't for one second think that MN is anti-men and I find it hard to understand how any rational minded person could come to that conclusion but at the same time I'm interested how a 'campaign group' that purports to love their children could slate a parenting forum so publicly when it's a well-known and trusted tool for all things 'parenting' and lots of stuff in between?

AbsofAwesomeness · 20/03/2012 11:06

The tragic thing is, is that there are fathers/parents who really need assistance in getting access to their children, finding their way through the court system, who do join F4J, and in the end are used by M O'C for his never-ending ego trips.

MrsArchieTheInventor · 20/03/2012 11:10

And... whilst F4J think that Mumsnet hates men, (they are entitled to their opinion, freedom of speech and thought etc etc) maybe a similar thought could be thrown back at F4J - that they hate women and mothers.

Codandchops · 20/03/2012 11:26

So where is their latest ad?

Or have they given up?

peeriebear · 20/03/2012 11:27

There was no ad in i today- I checked before buying it! I think they were probably bombarded with "what were you thinking running that" emails after the last one.

TheLittlestGoat · 20/03/2012 11:27

Brilliant. Their blog has been suspended by WordPress for violating their terms of use

Codandchops · 20/03/2012 11:28

Oh I "Like" that very much LittlestGoat.

SoupDragon · 20/03/2012 11:31

the web address referred to in the ad doesn't exist either.

TheLittlestGoat · 20/03/2012 11:36

SoupDragon, I believe that is just a holding page from the hosting service as they haven't uploaded any content yet.

The domain name was ony registered yesterday so I assume they are busy playing with Photoshop, cutting and pasting quotes out of context and writing badly phrased text to populate it with.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo · 20/03/2012 11:40

have realised what was deleted of mine. far from evidencing 'gender hatred', i merely re-iterated that we should ignore, said that they were acting like 'silly billies' and ''. HQ deleted that..? silly billies and ludicrous hair? jeez.

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