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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Fathers 4 Justice and their recent attacks on Mumsnet

999 replies

JustineMumsnet · 17/03/2012 09:28

Some of you may have noticed that a group called Fathers 4 Justice has been saying some pretty unpleasant things about us over the last couple of weeks. In an 'advert' which appeared first on Facebook and then in yesterday's edition of the I, the group claims Mumsnet 'promotes gender hatred', and labels 'men and boys as rapists, paedophiles and wife beaters'. It calls on advertisers to suspend advertising on Mumsnet.

Most people, I'm quite sure, will see the adverts and the 'campaign' behind them for precisely what they are: a naked attempt to court publicity by a group of people who for whatever reason appear to have tired of climbing cranes in superhero outfits. (And, just coincidentally, in the run up to Mothers' Day). In fact it feels a bit like having a particularly irritating toddler repeatedly prodding you with a stick to get some attention.

By and large it seemed most sensible to ignore them, not least because we've had our hands quite full with stuff that actually matters, like Mumsnet's 'We believe you' campaign to dispel rape myths.

But since Fathers 4 Justice appear to have attracted some grown ups' attention, we thought we should tell you a bit about the background to this attack, the truth behind their allegations, and how they are trying to bully us and other organisations. Here are 10 things you should know.

  1. On March 3rd a Mumsnet user started a conversation about a poster campaign being touted on Mumsnet's Facebook wall by Fathers 4 Justice, and the fact that Fathers 4 Justice was bombarding a number of sites with this troubling image.
  1. A conversation then ensued on Mumsnet about Fathers 4 Justice and their tactics which some members of Fathers 4 Justice joined. Some Mumsnetters said some pretty harsh things.
  1. We deleted a number of posts that broke our forum guidelines regarding personal attacks. In total we deleted 70 posts from the thread which went on over the next few days and reached 1000 posts in total. 60 were posts were made by regular Mumsnet members, ten or so by new joiners from Fathers 4 Justice. Our community managers reminded users to follow forum guidelines on nine separate occasions and at least one prolific Mumsnetter left the site in protest at our deletion policy.
  1. On March 7th and March 8th MNHQ received a series of emails from the Campaign Director of Fathers 4 Justice containing threats of legal action and a threat to contact our advertisers. At the same time comments on the Fathers 4 Justice Facebook page describing Mumsnetters as 'barking mad harridans', 'weird sex obsessed paranoid perverts' and 'child abusing contact blockers' were left unmoderated. As were comments that described me variously as a 'dried up old hag', 'an evil woman' and having an 'IQ that would return a negative score'.
  1. On March 11th Fathers 4 Justice posted another attack ad this time accusing M&S of 'sponsoring hateful, bigoted and prejudiced comments about men and boys on Mumsnet' and demanding that M&S withdraw all advertising on Mumsnet or face a boycott. It accused the company of 'serving up gender hatred for Mother's Day'.
  1. Other organisations have experienced similar bullying tactics. In recent weeks Fathers 4 Justice have targeted the lone parents' support charity, Gingerbread, jamming up its telephone helplines. Senior NGO staff have told us they felt too intimidated to speak out against them.
  1. The suggestion that Mumsnet encourages gender hatred would be funny if it were not so offensive - and plain silly. The central aim of Mumsnet is to make parents' (mothers' and fathers') lives easier. There are many and varied opinions on the site and no one Mumsnet party line prevails, save for the view that we respect diverse opinion. We do not pre-moderate or vet comments made to our discussion boards of which there are around 30 000 every day. Men are and always have been extremely welcome on Mumsnet - we have a Dadsnet forum for Dads to talk directly with other men should they wish. We estimate that around 5-10% of our 2 million odd monthly users are men.

Of course you can always find plenty of Mumsnetters whinging about their male partners' shortcomings - more than there are whinging about their female partners' shortcomings - but generalisations are swiftly pounced on and we do not tolerate gender hatred, or any other kind of hatred for that matter (save maybe hatred of Fruitshoots). We encourage people to be civil and supportive and, in the main, most people are.

  1. Fathers 4 Justice campaigns for fathers to have access to their children following separation or divorce. Its founder, Matt O'Connor, says parents have 'fewer rights than a terrorist'. The organisation was temporarily disbanded in 2006 after it emerged that some of its members had plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son Leo. Fathers 4 Justice boasts that it is 'the most controversial and high profile pressure group of modern times' but it has struggled to win public attention since abandoning its eye-catching tactic of scaling tall structures in superhero costumes. In recent weeks it has targeted Cafcass, the body responsible for protecting the rights of children in court proceedings, Gingerbread, the charity for single parents, (which it claimed supported 'the abuse of children') and Mumsnet. It has also, somewhat mysteriously, branded London 2012 'the fatherless games'.
  1. We believe that the issue of father's access to children is important and needs to be discussed. We understand that many Fathers 4 Justice campaigners are driven by intense personal anger over what they feel is injustice they have suffered in their own cases. But the recent actions the group have taken against Mumsnet and others constitute plain and simple bullying and intimidation and only harm its cause.
  1. Reading this, you may well already be spitting tacks by now. Please do remember that's precisely what Fathers 4 Justice want. If you post on the subject please keep it civil. We won't be bullied, but we don't want to be dragged into the mire either.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 23:34

Goat
That is a good blog. I am following him on twitter now, and have noticed that we share a lot of followers. Funny

AitchTwoOhOneTwo · 19/03/2012 23:37

who are the urban75 people? they seem like a good bunch, for the most part, am impressed with that thread someone linked to earlier.

DollyTwat · 19/03/2012 23:41

OnlyDads is a great tweeter, says it how it is, and isn't anything like Mr Whippy and his followers.

Sadly, lots of dads who could have access don't want it, or don't take it, don't pay anything and then complain about it, I think because they have to cover up for their selfishness to others. I don't mind being quoted saying my ex is a fuckwit, but just as long as they publish his name Grin

MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 23:43

Aitch
I blogged about male rape - already had a few comments on Twitter about it. And a very good point made on the blog about including male rape in the campaign.

MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 23:44

:o Dolly

Can't imagine how I missed OnlyDads. Had a scan of his timeline, and loved his comments.

DuelingFanjo · 19/03/2012 23:45

Urban75 is a good site, they don't suffer fools. I have a log-in but am not a regular as it can be quite scary. They are funny and wise people in the main. IIRC (from what my dh has told me) it's Brixton based but with a uk-wide membership and they pretty much say what they want without restriction. In many ways it's like Mumsnet - though they may not agree - and I can definitely see their members 'getting' mumsnet.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo · 19/03/2012 23:49

it never really occurred to me that the 'we believe you' campaign didn't include men who had been raped, tbh. seemed to me that it spoke to everyone.
am looking at urban75 now, like it, agree it seems not dissimilar to here, nice lack of hugz.

SophieNeveu · 19/03/2012 23:51

The male rape blog was very informative and Sad

MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 23:59

The stats on male rape are quite shocking, aren't they? And it is such a taboo subject that it is estimated that they are actually a lot higher cause many don't report.

Scary stuff.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo · 20/03/2012 00:07

i don't think they're that shocking, tbh. if you talk to men about this sort of thing, then stories emerge. an awful lot of men i know will have a story about being followed home and grabbed at when younger/at school/a student etc, and there are certainly areas round here where men and women would be very ill-advised to walk through at night.
that's not touching serious sexual assault, even, that's just the usual shit that it seems teenagers in particular are expected to put up with. it probably informs a lot of straight mens' homophobia, if you think about it. whereas as women being grabbed at by men we can't dismiss an entire gender for practical reasons, it's perfectly possible for young men to have a bad experience with an older man and take against all gay men. i bet if you ask your husbands and partners tonight you'll find they have some anecdote or other... all unnacceptable but somehow accepted as just part of growing up.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 20/03/2012 00:16

These ads are running on the tube at the moment - I think they are very good. They caught my attention about the issue of male rape.
www.survivorsuk.org/real-men-get-raped.html

I hope they help men who have been a victim of a sexual assault and didn't know where to turn.

LineRunner · 20/03/2012 00:22

And as I said upthread, tackling the myths about male-male rape helps to tackle male-female rape myths.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo · 20/03/2012 01:40

HQ pretty trigger-happy on this thread imo.

SoupDragon · 20/03/2012 07:22

They are erring on the side of caution, Aitch. I had my comment reinstated after I got arsey. Sorry about that MNHQ.

The problem is that all the "deleted" posts could make it look like there have been lots and lots of "gender hatred" posts, which there haven't.

Codandchops · 20/03/2012 07:25

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SoupDragon · 20/03/2012 07:28

Oh, I doubt it was very stressful, they just deleted everything that wasn't supportive of them.

SoupDragon · 20/03/2012 07:29

Which is odd given their complaints about other organisations doing the same to them.

Codandchops · 20/03/2012 07:31

Thing is that Matt went on hunger strike last year about the current state of family law in the UK. A year on the same laws are still here ......more to the point though so is Matt! Great hunger strike that was ....

swallowedAfly · 20/03/2012 07:50

more of a slightly peckish strike i guess.

Codandchops · 20/03/2012 08:02

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suzy82 · 20/03/2012 08:02

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QueenOfAllBiscuitsandMuffins · 20/03/2012 08:03

I know this is going to be ignored but do you know what the biggest 2 fingers would be to f4J?
Ignore them
Block the facebook page, do not post ANYTHING else about them on mumsnet or facebook.

Treat them as if they do not exist, if there is stuff going on behind the scenes let MNHQ deal with it, just let mumsnet forums continue business as usual.
This is feeding the trolls and they are getting very very fat.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 20/03/2012 08:09

Jeez that Icecreamist blog is creepy! The whole breastmilk icecream thing passed me by - I assumed they were just doing something quirky but essentially wholesome, but the whole tone of the blog is just ... ugh!

He describes his ice cream fantasies as ?bitter and twisted like a Roald Dahl story?.

It?s all gothic skulls and sharpening knives sound effects. Adult only then.

... and 'Lick your Addiction' in huge letters across the shop window.

Hmm
SophieNeveu · 20/03/2012 08:12

The silver lining in the odd advert from F4J and its focus on the words rape and male, is that male rape, on males by males as per the laws definition, will have a bigger focus in the We believe you campaign. If your given lemons make lemonade! This nonsence with MN and M&S will have zero baring on family law reform, what very very odd tactics from F4J Confused

suzy82 · 20/03/2012 08:12

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