It's not just us who find Aptamil's campaign thoroughly shameful.

[milkymouth]

Have a look at what Baby Milk Action have to say about the Independent newspaper's decision to run their campaign as well .

[mumtosomeone]

I have never used a bottle and found breastfeeding a breeze, so I could say the same thing..but wouldnt be so insensative!

[JoolsToo]

in your experience

[caligula]

I also think that the difference with those sort of Q's, Blu, is that another Mum can help you out with it. Another mum who has not trained to be a BF counsellor, may be able to help you bf, but probably won't be able to.

[EnidfromtheVILLAGE]

yes but blu, all those questions are about your baby and more general feeding questions. You dont need as much help with the actual process of bottle feeding, surely??

[mumtosomeone]

Also my health visitor and midwife are wonderful!!!
So I am a real outsider here!!!

[caligula]

Agree WWB

[Blu]

Then toothache needs to describe to us what suport bottlefeeding parents do need. I am interested, in a constructive way!

[aloha]

But breastfeeding is much more complex. I've done both with ds. You can see how much they are taking, you don't get mastitis, thrush, malpositioning....it's a totally different thing. I sound like I'm promoting formula here
The decision to give formula may be hard, but surely not the feeding itself?

[mumtosomeone]

maybe just feeding advice regardless of which B you choose to use!!!

[Blu]

mts, but you are buzzing round like a demented wasp inflaming perfectly calm discussions! Calm down!

[wordsmith]

Exactly what I was thinking Jools.

of course some bfing mums need intensive support, I'm not denying that! It's more the lack of support for ff-ing mums I am decrying. Ffmums on this site are sometimes made to feel that they will be responsible for stunting their child's growth, failing to protect them againt cancer, making them intolerant to dairy products, making them less intelligent etc etc. All arguments I have seen posited here. That sems to be to be the very opposite of support.

[mumtosomeone]

what?

[Toothache]

Rearing a child isn't Rocket Science either..... but when I posted that I was suffering with PND and struggled to cope with my baby nobody posted that!! People posted that I needed support.... and so I did.... Lots of it, which I found through MN and my GP.

WWB - Thats exactly what I mean.... I would've thought that MN'ers would have realised that! I wasn't looking for instructions in how to shove a bottle in a babies mouth. Sheeeeeesh Enid, a debate is one thing, but that was a bit strange. I have bottlefed and breastfed too..... doesn't make the night feeds any easier to cope with..... or colic...... or feelings of inadequacy etc etc.

[mumtosomeone]

where am I buzzing!!

[aloha]

Um, if I recall correctly, there are 'careline' numbers on all the formula boxes as well, with people paid by the formula companies to answer queries about formula feeding.
I think it's worth remembering that the vast majority of people giving advice on breastfeeding do so for free, because they are passionate about it, and believe in it.

[Toothache]

Aloha - So what your saying is if I am feeling that I can't cope with breastfeeding and want non bias support then I should phone a the number on the formula box..... even if I haven't bought any formula yet????

I suppose I'm talking about the need for a non bias non-judgemental approach to DECIDING what to do when you really are feeling distraught?

[mumtosomeone]

support in general is needed!!
Comments like its on the box really are unhelpful!!!

[aloha]

Who do you think should be giving you that? And who did you try?
You seem to be saying that all HVs and midwives push breastfeeding, but that is a million miles from the experience of many, many of us on this site. Including me. I've actually stayed away from my HV because I know that otherwise exclusively breastfeeding to six months would involving arguing with her. Nearly all of them want to see formula top ups and baby rice practically from birth IME.

[EnidfromtheVILLAGE]

sigh

the DECISION of whether to go on with bf or bottle feed is incredibly hard I agree, and it would be lovely to have unbiased support at that stage

my comment was that I can't understand (genuinely) where the PROCESS of bottle feeding (ie mixing it up, putting it into bottles, giving it to your baby) is hard. Wherease with bf, the supply is hard, knowing whethere your breasts are full or empty is hard, knowing whether you are producing too much or too little foremilk is hard, the latch is hard, the positioning is hard...shall I go on

[caligula]

That's where bf counsellors come in. They always ask: "What do you want to do? Do you want to continue to bf?"

I think it was Mears who posted a tale a while ago about someone she went to see who was absolutely desperate, and the advice Mears gave her was to switch to formula. Because M could see, that that woman wanted to formula feed. Not that she was desperate because she wanted to breastfeed but couldn't, but that she wanted to be given "permission" to ff, without judgementalism and condemnation.

And afaik, Mears did it without any tutting or sighing!!!

[wordsmith]

This discussion seems to be going round in circles and dsappearing up its own a**e

[Toothache]

EMOTIONAL SUPPORT. Thats it.
Help to feel adequate whether it's bottle or breast.

I want to be a midwife and one of my motivations is the feeding issue (and PND). I want every Mum to realise that they can try to breastfeed, they might enjoy it! They might be great at it! They might take great satisfaction in doing it...... but if not, they tried (with the proper support from me as a MW) and there is no use in ending up so depressed that you can't function properly..... which is how I ended up. Feeling like an incredible failure and nobody in the medical profession felt compelled to make me think otherwise.

It was different with my dd (2nd baby).

[aloha]

I have seen both Mears and Tiktok be very supportive to mothers who couldn't breastfeed for whatever reasons.
It seems to me, Toothache, that you didn't get any proper support to either breastfeed successfully - ie without pain or struggles, or with a decision to stop or with your general unhappiness and depression.. ie just poor support all round. Not really to do with breastfeeding per se.

[EnidfromtheVILLAGE]

thats nice wordsmith

do you mean us or toothache are disappearing up our own arses?

[mumtosomeone]

Enid you dont get empty breasts!!