It's not just us who find Aptamil's campaign thoroughly shameful.

[milkymouth]

Have a look at what Baby Milk Action have to say about the Independent newspaper's decision to run their campaign as well .

[JoolsToo]

edam - the team have started a thread revising their ad policy

[edam]

The problem is if we all shut up about this, by the time MN HQ return from their hols (assuming that is why they haven't been around to answer these threads), the problem will have gone away. MN will be able to continue taking Milupa's money, Milupa will have successfully avoided the law. MNers will have lost Tiktok and her invaluable, free, advice, so more women will give up breastfeeding when they actually would continue if they got the right information and support.

[JoolsToo]

milky - agree that's why its a minefield!

definitely mears friend - checked the thread!

[compo]

batters, justine have just posted a response under site stuff

[milkymouth]

I'm not sure that it was a 'friend' of Meer's in any case. i think she was a client or whatever the correst term is.

[milkymouth]

jools,I think there are also many who say that they don't/didn't want to but actually do/did and are grieving about this.
What do you think?

[Pruni]

Message withdrawn

[JoolsToo]

but at first she said she was 'desperate' to breastfeed didn't she?

and that's the problem - some say they want to but deep down they don't so you could end up encouraging some women who feel that its the right thing to do but don't really want to (I'm a case in point!) and they get in a right state cos they're not happy - it was lucky mears really knew her friend and had an better insight into her personality most midwives don't have that privilege

I think it was sound advice too milky (hunker?)

[milkymouth]

I remember the thread. I think the woman had twins. She had bottlefed the first and wanted to feed the twins but was having a real job. Mears pointed out that she would have to put in an amazing amount of effort to get the twins to where she wanted them to be in terms of weight gain and frequency of feeds to which Ii think the woman then decided to bottlefeed quite happily.

(Iirc)

A great example of impartial support and advice I think.

[caligula]

Jools, yes it is a sweeping statement but I believe it to be an accurate one.

My evidence is that the majority of women begin to bf and by 6 weeks, only about somewhere in the low 40%s, continue to do so. I don't believe that's because women are just fickle and can't make up their minds. I believe it's because many start off wanting to bf, find it's incredibly tough and don't get the support they need because mw's and hv's are not trained to give it them. And many hv's and mw's believe that they are trained to give it them, and so don't point them in the direction of someone who could help them.

And I don't care if that's disrepectful, our bf rates are a disgrace. And that's more important. I'm not blaming mw's and hv's for not knowing about bf, but I am blaming the health service for not prioritising either their training, or the training of bf counsellors, whom the mw's and hv's would know were more expert than them.

And also, I disagree that the response would have been "what terrible advice" if we didn't know it was mears. The point is, the woman wanted to stop breastfeeding - she wanted to ff. If she'd come on and said I really, really wanted to continue to bf, but my mw told me not to, then of course it would have been bad advice. But if she came on and said "I'm so relieved my mw told me to ff, I've been so unhappy bf and I really wanted to give up and I was only keeping going because I was scared of what others might think of me, but I really hated it" then we would have all said, what a great midwife.

[milkymouth]

Updating.

[Toothache]

Enid - I really wasn't saying it was offensive. Sorry it looked that way.
It's all very well to say that everyone should have the confidence to make a decision and not give a feck what everyone else thinks..... but thats not the way it is... or why would anyone need support?

I had PND, which is another way I'd like to help women.....raising awareness of the symptoms and treatments (another thread entirely!). Many women regardless of how they feed their child feel immense waves of inadequacy at first. And I don't think there are enough support bases out there for that. Its like "Oh well, you're not going to breastfeed anymore then.... okay you'd better hang up!".

[edam]

Sadly Jools there are a lot of midwives and health visitors who don't actually know a lot about breastfeeding, or how to support mothers who are struggling. In my day job I've asked the Royal College of Midwives and the Community Practitioners and Health Visitors Association why that is and they didn't really answer the question. I think part of the problem is that health visitors aren't always on top of continuing professional development but CPHVA were very unclear about that - don't want to admit it I guess.

[oliveoil]

My mw were fab, manhandling boobs all over the show to show me what to do.

[EnidfromtheVILLAGE]

ooh yes definitely

have been lucky down here as all midwives in hospital very pro bfeeding and also hv breastfed her dd until she was over 2

[JoolsToo]

in first place I think its a bit of a sweeping statement - not say disrespectful to say most midwives don't know about breastfeeding - there must be many who are as good as mears.

Secondly, my point was - that if the mother had just posted her story and you didn't know mears was involved - the cry would be 'what a shame you didn't get more support'

[WigWamBam]

Well, yes - there's that to it as well. But where that's lacking, wouldn't it be better if the HVs and midwives were better equipped and better trained to deal with breast-feeding? Do you not think that it should be part of their function to be able to help people with this kind of problem?

[EnidfromtheVILLAGE]

i agree wwb, it is important.

but what is more important is the confidence to realise that not everyone will be able to give you emotional support, because some people will not agree with your decsion. But then to make the decision anyway because it is right for you and not care what anyone else thinks.

a skill that luckily I have been blessed with

[WigWamBam]

But Mears managed to help that woman in a compassionate manner, something that Toothache didn't get when she needed to switch. I'm sure Mears' lady didn't feel inadequate about changing to formula in the way that Toothache's midwife made her feel. Emotional support that we have made the right decision is important to all of us.

[caligula]

The difference being Jools, that unlike most mw's, mears knows about bf and so is qualified to give that advice.

Most mw's give that advice because they don't know what the other options are. There's a difference between getting that advice from someone who would know how to support you to continue bfing if that's what you wanted to do, and getting that advice from someone who doesn't know how to begin to support you to bf.

[JoolsToo]

ever seen a man bottle feed? - er you need to get the milk in the teat darling!

[EnidfromtheVILLAGE]

is it offensive to call people who breastfeed breastfeeders?

[JoolsToo]

surely midwives, hvs and bfcs are only human - they give the best advice they can right or wrong - some are sh*t I suppose but that's just a fact of life - like any job there are guduns and baduns - we ain't in Utopia yet.

it's funny you mentioning that mears post - I was thinking of doing so myself. on another thread in another universe - if you just heard the mother's story you'd probably all being saying 'what a shame you didn't get better advice I'm sure you could have breastfed with better support'

for the record I think mears advice was spot on! that's what a call a good, intuitive, compassionate woman!

[EnidfromtheVILLAGE]

er

breastfeeders that have switched to the bottle?