It's not just us who find Aptamil's campaign thoroughly shameful.

[milkymouth]

Have a look at what Baby Milk Action have to say about the Independent newspaper's decision to run their campaign as well .

[Nightynight]

interesting link, thanks milkymouth.

that is a good point Toothache, but the advice should still come from trained health professionals, not from the advertising budget of a multinational food giant. (obviously you didnt get the support you needed )

[WigWamBam]

The alternative is breast-feeding counsellors, La Leche, NCT breast-feeding counsellors, hospital breast-feeding groups ... they're out there, they really are. And they don't have the vested interest that formula companies have.

The fact you couldn't find them shows how much we need unbiased groups to give support to breast-feeding women. You won't get that from a formula company.

[Toothache]

Snafu - It would have balanced it though wouldn't it? A completely baised approach toward breastfeeding was all I got. I was made to feel shocking about it! And no it wasn't all in my head, the midwife really did tut and sigh when I said I was struggling and wanted/needed to give him a bottle.

I lasted longer with dd, but that was because I was more confident and my Mum was around (she breastfed my brothers until they were nearly 2).

[Toothache]

Surely by the name "Breastfeeding Counsellor" they are already perceived as bias!
Perhaps they should be called "Infant Feeding Support Counsellors" or such.... do you get what I mean?
The name would've put me off phoning TBH when I felt I needed to stop breastfeeding.

[caligula]

Toothache I had lots of tutting, sighing mw's.

That's why they're not suitable to give mothers advice on bf, unless they have also been trained to be bf counsellors.

(My first HV was a fully trained bf counsellor, which is how she could give me support. The one I had with my second child was a bog standard HV who hadn't been trained on bf counselling, so she couldn't give me support.)

[EnidfromtheVILLAGE]

how do you need support if you decide to give formula?

the instructions are on the box arent they?

[snafu]

Well, Toothy, if you regard a nice ex-midwife saying 'Oh no, dear, how rotten for you, never mind, have some of this lovely formula and don't feel bad' as 'balanced', then yes I guess it would be

I'm not taking the pi**, I do think it's outrageous that you were made to feel that way. I just think that what you needed was a more understanding midwife, not a formula company with a 'breastfeeding helpline'...

[Toothache]

Enid - Thats a bit insensitive! So everything you need to know about feeding a baby formula is written on the box?

So if you read the instructions on how to breastfeed then you shouldn't need any support either!!!

I'm talking about proper support..... not instructions on how to mix formula. Many people on MN need advice about feeding even though they use formula don't they?

I'm quite taken aback by that post Enid! So women that formula feed shouldn't get any support?

[Toothache]

Snafu - NO! I wouldn't have expected that..... I expected the Midwives to see that I was falling apart (since I was crying at the time) and didn't feel I could cope. I certainly didn't expect them to just say "Sigh, Tut, well if you really can't cope then I suppose thats up to you" whilst scribbling their notes down furiously!

Perhaps the Milupa helpline isn't exactly the answer, but an non-bias approach is definitely needed.

[Toothache]

Good grief have I killed the thread!!!?

[caligula]

No you can't have done - someone will be along in the minute telling everyone to stop talking about this.

[JoolsToo]

maybe there's an opportunity for you there toothache - a yawning gap in the market -eh?

Women who have had a bad time breastfeeding and turned to bottle advising women in a similar position?

It's a thought

[EnidfromtheVILLAGE]

sorry toothy

but its not rocket science? Bottle feeding?

[caligula]

Jools believe me, there is no gap in that market.

It's already being filled by midwives and HV's. Hence the appallingly low rates of BF in this country.

The gap is supportive bf counsellors who know how to help women overcome the bf problems so that they can continue to bf.

[wordsmith]

I'm a bit shocked by Enid's comment. Hope she didn't mean to be so insensitive, but it just proves the point I have been making on other threads: in some people's eyes, if you choose to bottle feed you are beyond the pale and not deserving of support, whereas if you breastfeed you should have trained counsellors on hand 24 hours a day ready to come to your side at the drop of a hat.

A bit one sided isn't it? The truth is any mother may need support, whichever route to feeding she chooses, and she shouldn't be demonised for taking the formula route.

[caligula]

But ws, what support do you need with formula that is as time intensive and specialist as bf support?

[wordsmith]

"but its not rocket science? Bottle feeding?"

Just proves my point even more. Change bottle feeding to breast feeding and see what the reaction would be.

[mumtosomeone]

Enid, i think you are in a mood today or just out to cause trouble!!
Is there something you need to talk about?

[EnidfromtheVILLAGE]

but thats because they are not the same and do not involve the same kind of effort and skill

[JoolsToo]

caligula - oh I 'C'

wouldn't have thought breast feeding was rocket science either - well its the most natural thing in the world surely?

once you've got the latch right you're away.

[EnidfromtheVILLAGE]

no not in a mood

just have come into this debate late!

and I am sorry, I dont understand why bottle feeding takes as much support as breast feeding.

I have done both btw and I know which was harder!

[caligula]

No that's not true and good bf counsellors know that.

Lots of HV's and MW's otoh, don't.

And that's why more bf counsellors are needed.

[mumtosomeone]

enid
What is wrong with you?

[Blu]

It's not about deserving support,but about identifying what support is needed - and tbh when I first read Enid's comment, I agreedd. But then I thought about the many many q's from people worrying about how much, how often, babies who won't feed all at once, babies who don't like a bottle, how to drop feeds, add feeds, etc etc.
None of that is on the box.

But either way, it doesn't have to be a value udgement about the bottlefeeding per se, nor does it have to be taken as one.

[WigWamBam]

Trouble is, the trained bfcs can't help with the emotional side of feeding - and I think that's what Toothache felt she needed. The problems that they can help with are physical - positioning, latch, pain - none of which apply to bottle-feeding. There's no emotional support for breast-feeders either, apart from the feeling that at least someone is there to try and help with the physical stuff.

What was probably needed was an ounce of sympathy from the midwives ... and once again, we're back to the huge lack of support for women once their baby is born.