Amazing guy but the sex

[BrionyM]

Seeing a man for a few months. Gradually fallen in love and he has many wonderful partnership qualities. We seemingly have strong chemistry, always kidding and touching and affectionate outside bed.

The first time we tried sex we had intercourse twice, lasted a few minutes each time before he went soft. He went down on me & fingered me but I didn't cum which bothered him.

So over the last of week he stopped masturbating before we met. This time we didn't attempt intercourse at all. Again he went down on me and it felt amazing but I didn't get there so he gave up after 5 mins.

We did some mutual masturbation and he's otherwise asked if I can 'be patient'. I adore him so want to give it time but sex is very important to me. How much time would you give to see if things improve?

@Offwiththecircus It’s strange how you believe the obviously pervy posters on the sex board posting all kinds of bs in their search for wank fodder, but when women talk of their lived experience, it’s not believed. 🙄

@Offwiththecircus You seem to be finding your keyboard more lately. 😉

ALL OF THIS ^

If it’s only been twice, I’d definitely be giving it a bit longer. I’ve only had mind blowing sex the first time once and every other partner has been a learning experience before it got hot.

You know the internet isn't some kind of obscure niche thing and a lot of the things discussed on it do actually mimic real life experiences and conversations? Just checking 😂because it would be weird if you didn't know that 😉

No I can't offer a medical reference and you know I can't because it's not recognized yet, but that doesn't actually mean anything (except that it's not recognised YET) because these things take time.

In 2013 the APA said said there was insufficient evidence to include video game disorder in the DSM but that it warranted further study. WHO recognised it as a disorder in 2019 I believe.

Porn addiction is another slow one to be recognized, doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just that there is a process that has to be followed before inclusion, and these things take time!!

Half the world goes through peri-menopause too and yet it wasn't really talked about for a long time, but thankfully with help from the internet (of all places 😀) now a lot more people are educated on it and there is a lot more understanding and therefore support.

Also 'The internet' is used as a tool for scientific study now just so you know 😄

That was a very long winded way of saying you don't have any scientific evidence to back up what you're saying.

It must have been nice to live in the pre internet era when not a single man ever had trouble maintaining an erection or producing an orgasm on command, right?

Indeed...... One might even suspect that the dreaded "death grip" is most commonly spoken about by women who object to porn.

Not that such women post on Mumsnet though.🤣🤣🤣🤣

There is of course some evidence that backs it up if you want to look up research on delayed ejaculation. TBH I'm just interested in having a chat on MN and don't feel the need to look up journal articles on such a subject right now😂when you could easily look it up yourself.

I would imagine there's no real 'scientific evidence' which actually helps to disprove it either.

Unless you genuinely believe that men only had issues with their erections in the past after going crazy with some particularly saucy daguerreotypes, it's unlikely that every man experiencing issues has been squeezing their dick to buggery.

I'm sure it happens. But it should not be trotted out on every single thread about it like god himself came down and declared that every man who watches porn shall henceforth be cursed with a waggly willy.

Maybe it shouldn't be stated as if it's an absolute certainty, but it should always be raised as a possibility because there is a fairly decent chance that it could be that.

Also the fact that every time it is mentioned people 'trot out' the same stupid lines making out it is just a MN myth and that death grip is definitively not a real thing makes the 'another case of death grip' posters more likely to post that every time....such is the nature of internet forums.

You have absolutely zero idea what the statistics are.

And no, it's not raised as a possibility. It's continually raised as an absolute certainty.

Human beings - even men 😱😱 - are complex creatures. There is no one simple answer as to why any particular person is struggling with their sexual performance.

Obviously this has been going on for time out of mind so it's very short sighted to consistently blame a relatively new invention.

I said it should be raised as a possibility, not a certainty.

But that it is often raised as a certainty now in part due to the number of people who choose to deny it exists and mock people who say that it does, that strengthens the original opinions.

Surely you have noticed that on internet forums, the more people try to shut down others the stronger the opinion gets. Trying to shut people down by mocking, minimising, trying to shame people into being PC will often have the opposite effect and make the other person louder and their views more extreme and cement them further.

The more people who deny it exists, the more people are going to say it does!
Also the fact that denying it exists is just pure odd makes it seem like those who say it have an agenda.

It's hardly beyond the realms of possibility in any way to imagine that aggressively masturbating with a tight grip can make it more difficult or impossible to stay erect or to climax if there is less stimulation, but yet some people love to make out that it's just a nonsensical MN myth even though as I said people report this all over the internet and men themselves who experienced it will blame it on their masturbation habits.

I wouldn't call it short-sighted to consider one of the most obvious things first.
There are of course other things that it can be and they should also be ruled out. But yet many women don't actually know what's going on for those men because they often aren't exactly forthcoming with what they themselves know about it or they don't go to the doctors etc and women then can often suffer as a consequence, hence why a lot of women are fed up and warn other women.

It's absolute bollocks that people pointing out that there can be many other reasons why someone is struggling with their sexual performance is why women constantly write 'death grip' under every single post on the subject.

I'd go as far as to say it's dangerous. It's much more likely to have a medical cause in older men. Insisting that he must be porn obsessed without any evidence is potentially steering people away from the much more likely issues of low testosterone or a prostate issue. These men could have undiagnosed prostate cancer while this anti-porn agenda runs riot.

Not to mention that watching porn doesn't automatically mean someone is strangling their penis beyond sensation.

If this was a men's forum and every man was posting that they need to hide their partner's sex toys because they've decided, based on no factual or statical evidence whatsoever, that women were giving themselves 'vibrator vagina', you'd be outraged.

The fact is that you're just anti porn. And if you need to make shit up to support your view, then you'll do it.

I didn't say that though did I?

I said it's the people who mock and say that death grip is just something made up by people on MN that have strengthened peoples original opinions on the matter.

The man being discussed on this thread isn't an older man, and generally when older men are being discussed medical issues are very much talked about and people don't leap to 'death grip'. In fact people are far more likely to just go straight to recommending Viagra!

How on earth have you come to the conclusion that I'm anti-porn?

Is it just because I think that death grip is a thing you make an assumption that I'm anti porn?
I actually watch and enjoy porn, with the exception of certain things, and don't have an issue with men watching porn either, with the exception of certain things, but I also acknowledge that sometimes porn use can be problematic and that porn use can cause problems in their relationships. So I'm not anti-porn in any way at all actually 😂

If this was a men's forum and every man was posting that they need to hide their partner's sex toys because they've decided, based on no factual or statical evidence whatsoever, that women were giving themselves 'vibrator vagina', you'd be outraged.

As for that bit, sorry but what planet do you live on? humans make meaning of life based on their own experiences and that of others, people don't all leap to taking out the latest updated science books for advice on stuff like this 😂

If there was a well known, much discussed phenomenon of women overusing vibrators which in turn meant that successful sex was extremely difficult or almost impossible and women all over the world were saying yes this happened me when I used my vibrator so I had to do x and y to fix it and then x worked then of course men would be discussing this and wanting their partners to give up the vibrator. No man is going to be like hmmm well I see this problem discussed daily and I've seen the stories of the women who said they had/have this problem and I've seen the stories of the women who said they fixed it but I'm going to hold out for scientific studies and statistics 😂

Hiding the vibrator.....I wouldn't agree with that because he couldn't force her to try to resolve the issue but as a woman I wouldn't be hiding my mans hand or phone if he was obsessively aggressively masturbating either. It would be his choice whether he wanted to try to fix the issue or not and my choice whether I wanted to stay or not.

No, it doesn't matter how old the man is. It still gets trotted out on every thread on this subject.

Again, the issue is much more likely to be either psychological or physiological. Not because of aggressive and obsessive masturbation. There's evidence to support the former. Nothing to support the latter.

If you feel happy to continue to repeat myths all over Mumsnet, I guess you're going to do that. But don't expect that you won't be challenged on it.

@YouDidntEvenAskIfSheWasThereMoriarty
Not for older men.

Again, scientific evidence takes time to gather. You're in denial if you don't think that in future that the evidence isn't going to support what is being said worldwide.

People probably didn't believe it could be caused by psychological issues a long time ago either but people reported it and reported it and discussed it and studied it and now it's accepted.

The same to you, don't expect to go unchallenged, because to me it seems that it's you who is repeating a myth!

Especially when you're part of that brigade who jumps to the "you're just anti-porn" because I agree that death grip is a thing. You can tell nothing about someones stance on porn from that apart from that they're not in the 'porn is completely harmless in every way' camp.

I'm not anti porn at all but I'm not blind or stupid and am aware that it can be problematic in many ways and has caused issues in society and relationships.

Just like I'm not anti-alcohol but I'm also aware that it can be problematic in many ways.

For all I know some of the men out there with death grip could be aggressively masturbating into leather boots....but it just so happens that the men who report it do most often tend to claim that it's associated with watching porn.

That says nothing about my views about my porn, and is only discussing the phenomenon itself.

When you've got your supporting evidence for your claims, that's when I'll accept it as factual.

Until then, no I'm going to go with the facts as they are.

I mean there's literally plenty of evidence which points right to it without them specifically mentioning death grip but apparently you need it spelled out for you by some impressive headline like "Science confirms death grip" because you can't put the jigsaw pieces together yourself.

Even look at how delayed ejaculation is often treated and you'll see right there.

Encourage a man who continues to masturbate to alter style (“switch hands”) and to approximate the stimulation likely to be experienced with his partner.

Do you think that switching to the left hand rather than the right just makes him a bit hornier or do you think it might have something to do with how tight he's gripping? 😂🤔

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27652228/

And the following website run by the University of California says

While it is only estimated that delayed ejaculation symptoms are reported at low rates in literature (rarely exceeding 3%), clinical experiences, some urologists, and sex therapists are reporting an increasing incidence of RE and prevalence of self-diagnosed DGS.1 While the potential causes of RE vary widely and may be attributed to alcoholism and drug use, SSRI’s, birth defects, pelvic injuries, and nerve damage caused by diabetes, a five year retrospective chart review of men with delayed ejaculation indicated that 37 percent of patients had a history of masturbating in a way that stimulated a “specific spot,” or “with an idiosyncratic masturbatory style.”3 Continuously using too tight of a grip as with DGS or relying on extremely rapid stimulation characterizes two types of these styles.

https://sexinfoonline.com/masturbation-death-grip-syndrome-dgs/

If clinicians all waited for the supporting evidence before taking note of the phenomenon they are witnessing in their daily practice and providing advice for it then that would be harming many people, but luckily some sex therapists, psychotherapists etc do recognise it and don't just pretend it's some out-there theory....seeing as it actually makes sense.

There's concerned young men out there who have noticed that their masturbation habits have changed and how difficult it is to ejaculate now and they think it's due to how they masturbate (based on their own lived experience) and people like you want to say to them no no that's extremely unlikely, it's far more likely to be psychological or physical 🙄

There would be no new 'science' or new diagnoses without people recognizing phenomenon's that repeat time and time again and listening to the experiences of those people.

I always find it strange when people bring 'science' into it and they don't recognise that the exploration part is a huge part of actually getting the answers. Scientific research doesn't just fall out of the sky randomly. If everyone was like you just waiting for it then there would be none.

Mumsnutters with their anti-porn agenda. Give it a rest. You are fooling nobody....🤣🤣🤣

As I've said, I'm not anti-porn. I watched it today actually 😂

What a strange black and white world you must live in Rachel if you think that people bringing up issues related to aggressive masturbation means that someone is anti porn.

I don't care if people watch porn. I just think that maybe if they're aggressively masturbating to porn (or whatever they're masturbating to) and it means they can't have sex as a result then they should probably lay off the masturbation for a while 😂😂

They can even still watch the porn if they want to for all I care, just don't aggressively masturbate to it if they want to fix their death grip 😂

Common sense, but apparently common sense isn't so common anymore 😃

If you think there isn't an anti porn agenda from certain people on Mumsnet you must be deaf, dumb and blind. Invariably those posters will always be banging on about the "death grip". Crackpots..... 🤣🤣🤣

To be fair Rachel you must be deaf, dumb and blind and a bit of a crackpot yourself if you can't see that often peoples issue is not actually porn, the issue is that many men don't have a partnered sex life at all, instead all they want to do is wank all day. Many women wouldn't care about the porn as long as their partner could still get it up and actually have sex, it's not that hard to understand. Well it shouldn't be anyway but apparently it's difficult for some.

I've never encountered this myself in relationships luckily, because there's no way I'd be with a man who couldn't stay hard during sex and had to aggressively masturbate in order to orgasm 😂No thanks, I'd rather have a man who was actually capable of having sex.

Another one........🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Nurse!!!!!!!

Wait wait wait...

Not only do you have no evidence whatsoever that this is even a thing, you also have no personal experience of it happening either?

How the fuck do you know how hard all men are gripping their dicks then?

Is that you, God? It's me, YouDidntEvenAskIfSheWasThereMoriarty!

You must be anti-sex Rachel, not anti-porn 😂😂