Porny Expectations - do you find men's attitudes have changed?

[LoisPuddingLane]

I watch a fair bit of porn, although I'm more into the naturalistic stuff. No bouncy ball tits, fake nails, that sort of thing. I like hair. Proper orgasms. Anyway...

What I wanted to discuss was whether the unrealistic nature of much mainstream porn has affected how men respond and react in sexual situations. I don't have a lot of sex these days (old) but the last time I did, I really noticed a very porny style to the guy's behaviour. As if he'd watched a lot and thought it was normal.

Things that see to be considered "normal" in a lot of mainstream porn:

1. An expectation of no body hair at all.
2. An expectation of effortless female orgasm.
3. Along with that orgasm, gushing lots of "cum" (pee?)
4. Easy and expected anal.
5. Expected "gagging" oral.

Have you also found these things creeping in to real sex?

Sorry- The point being that it was a woman who did it to me. so actually in contrast to the OP

The point I was making Lois was that one of the most porno-esque episodes I have experienced was a woman to me. So perhaps attitudes have been influenced on both sides.

OK, well let's talk deal-breakers (sexual):

1. Anyone who goes ewwwww at pubic hair. I find it incredibly sexy on men and women and prefer being with people who also do. It's not a great start if someone frowns at your fanny.

1. People who are aggressive in bed. When I was a teenager I think I had fantasies about being ravaged. Ravaged sounds so sexy. Turns out I don't like it. I prefer to be marginally more dominant than my partners.

1. Obsession with anal.

1. Obsession with props and add-ons. Good sex is enough for me. I don't like to say vanilla because that always seems a bit sneery.

I think if I met a man and we got on well and all was progressing as it should, and then he told me anal was a deal breaker, I would laugh in his face and tell him to jog on then.
But that's just me Caveman, and if it works for you...
Maybe I'm just out of touch as I've been with dh for nearly 15 years.

I just don't get the anal thing. I've tried. Alone and with partners. And my bum is just not happy with things going the wrong way.

And that's fine for you ThatIsNachoCheese, I take it you have no deal breakers? You would happily accept if your partner did not do things you enjoyed. You would happily accept a roll-on, roll-off sex life.

Plus "deal breaker" is a term I have adopted off this post. It would be more accurate to say we were not sexually compatible. Which is obviously a less contentious way of saying it.

I would not want my partner to feel pressured into doing anything that they weren't 100% into.
An attitude of "Oh well, if you don't do anal we are not compatible", is likely to pressure some people into doing anal just to keep you iyswim.

What happens if, in your life together, something happens that makes sex difficult for a while? It can't be the be all and end all. I find that attitude strange, it's about the sex and not the person.

It is fairly odd when you think about it, shoving your willy where someone poos. But then sex is pretty odd all round.

These days sex is a bloody minefield - to shave or not to shave, having a hairy fanny being a turn off/also a fetish FFS!! anal, sucking shit off a dick,deep throat gagging, shitting on chests, squirting cum etc etc.

Women are expected to be like bloody performing seals at a circus.

I know its what goes between two happy consenting adults is absolutely fine, to be fair I dont want to Mrs Missionary position for the rest of my life but so much of what is expected to be the norm these days wasnt the norm 30/40 years ago (another oldie here). Its also what is expected straight away with little build up. I suppose this is all part of it though - people expecting a full repertoire at a one night stand/fuck buddy arrangement or the start of a relationship can only mean to keep things hotted up 12 months/5 years down the line they have to get more and more extreme!

Dating these days is a minefield - no one seems to want to go back for a good old shag no you seem to be expected to get your back doors smashed in and preform a repertoire of sex acts. If you only offer "just a shag" then the there is the feeling you are a dullard!

There are some hideous things I hear about these days. Young people having anal sex only in order save their virginity.

There was a thread on here a while back where some mumsnetter was a Doctor and said there are loads of young women and teens with sphincter/rectal injuries caused by anal sex. These are young women facing fecal incontinence issues for the rest of their lives.

Men see women being hammered up arse on porn and then try to carry out sex like it in real life probably not realising some preperation is needed.

I like as much fun as anyone else but I do think its all become a bit warped and there is a pressure to "perform" from the very start of meeting someone these days. I dont think as many men are as respectful these days when it comes to sex.

I am old though so probably a bit out of touch. I really feel for teens though. Sex is like a tick box of acts to carry out. There is no longer very much building up sexual experience over time.

Its also what is expected straight away with little build up

Quite. This.

I don't think it's about being old and out of touch. I think young women may feel they have to do certain things otherwise the bloke will move on. Whereas you or I might say "go on then, fuck off", a nineteen year old may think she has to do stuff. This expectation definitely comes from the normalising of a lot of practices in porn. I used to sneak my brother's porn mags when I was very young and there was nothing like that in there. Maybe some occasional anal, but it wasn't part of a staple diet, as it appears to be now.

I also think these guys who a) don't think you'll need lube with them and b) insist they will be able to make you squirt are REALLY FUCKING BORING. Sometimes I need lube, sometimes I don't. I'm ancient, deal with it. And I've reached this advanced age without drowning any lovers, I don't particularly want you rooting around up my vag to see if you can find some elusive magic sprinkler. I don't care if I never squirt.

I keep struggling with the "it's a deal breaker if there's no whatever sex act" because to me it sounds like a way of saying "if you don't do it I'll dump you" But if I were to start again with someone who valued anal sex so highly as to not want to be with me otherwise I'd rather know.

I've been with dh for 15 years, anal isn't our thing, we didn't try until being together after a few years, we talked about first etc, we didn't like it, i couldn't shit or sit properly for a week, despite him being gentle etc, he said that if we really loved it and it was the best thing ever he'd never want to do it again after seeing me wince when sitting down.

I honestly think that if DH were to die tomorrow I would stay single, the thought of re establishing trust and boundaries etc in today's world sounds daunting tbh.

For me it's more "if you keep insisting on it/badgering for it and it's something I don't like, I'll dump you."

Your bum experience sounds horrendous, and all the reasons why I'm not letting anything bar a doctor's gloved finger up there EVER.

Lois
I don't particularly want you rooting around up my vag to see if you can find some elusive magic sprinkler.

INicked I'm sorry, that sounds horrendous!
I honestly think that if DH were to die tomorrow I would stay single, the thought of re establishing trust and boundaries etc in today's world sounds daunting tbh.

I felt like that after I separated from my DH, and then he died. I felt like that for about 2 years, but after that I began slowly to start seeing people again. There were a few false starts but I did meet a man who I could trust again, and things were very good between us in the bedroom.

I do think it's got easier for me as I've got older because I feel much more confident to slap my cards down on the table and say "This is what I like, this is what I'm okay with, this is what I won't do. Do we have a match?"

Maybe the problem with younger people thinking it's all about what they see in porn, is that we're not talking about it openly enough with them.

To re-use an analogy I made last week, we allow our sons and daughters to watch films like Need for Speed but expect them to know that it's just a fantasy and you can't really drive a sports car through the middle of a city at 100mph and not kill anyone. Or that Jason Bourne may be able to take a couple of bullets to the body and keep running after the bad guy, but in reality if you get shot you will be lying on the floor crying and screaming (hopefully.)

Do those of you with kids at an appropriate age talk to them about porn and how it's not reality? I did this with my DS when he was about 15 and have reinforced the message periodically since. He has an interest in film-making so it was easy to talk about camera angles, creative editing, re-shooting scenes, and about how the film is shot for its main demographic, i.e. men.

I must admit I've never talked to my daughter about porn. (She's late twenties now, so bit late). But I was always very clear with her about one thing: that her body was hers to do what she wanted with, in private, and nobody else could make her do anything she didn't want.

My favourite sort of porn to watch is some very unusual stuff with transmen and women together (I rather like transmen). And they are clearly having a pretty good time together.

Do those of you with kids at an appropriate age talk to them about porn and how it's not reality?

My dd is 10 and I've had to touch on it, much earlier than I wanted to because a boy in her class had been talking about a vid he'd watched in the playground and dd heard him talking about stuff he'd seen.

I answered her questions, explaining that the video he'd watched is called porn that it's videos of people having sex, sometimes it's acting with a film crew etc, sometimes it's people filming themselves. That the videos don't always show consent (like the one her classmate had seen) and that's a very very important thing irl. That some adults like to watch these videos and that some adults don't. I just kind of went where her questions took the convo.

It's something I will talk about with her again when she's a bit older or if she asks questions, and will talk about how sex is supposed enjoyable for women too and what's shown in porn isn't always enjoyable. MN opened my eyes to what's classed as mainstream porn now, and this prob sounds silly I'm actually scared that dd will be asked to do some of the stuff in "teen" porn, and not feel confident to say no, or be under peer pressure to do things she doesn't want to.

Sorry to derail.

I don't think you're derailing!

She may well be asked to do stuff - I have no idea if my daughter has been. Although we are close, some things are off limits. The younger generation think they don't need advice anyway (I'm sure we did). What would old farts like us (like me anyway) know?

I know that when I was young, even though there wasn't the expectations that there seem to be now, I found it hard to say no to people. I just didn't know how. I remember one particularly horrendous situation where the only way I could get out of it and make him take me home was saying I was going to be sick. (And I actually was, when I got home).

So I would say just make sure daughters know they don't have to do anything they don't want - they are in charge of their bodies. There's not a lot else you can do.

Apologies for poor grammar. I really wish you could edit stuff on here!

Ye Gods this thread is depressing. If DH ever leaves me I think I will never date again. I will just take refuge in gripping novels and gardening. With a pot of lapsang souchong and a cashmere cardigan.

I just had a thought. In a way, the situation reflects a little what happened in the 60s. With the advent of the pill and Free Love (what a strange expression that is) there was, supposedly, sexual liberation. Except what actually happened was that women no longer had a reason to say no because, well, you're on the pill aren't you? And I think a lot of sex was had in order to be seen as cool and with it. I'm sure a lot of sex was had for better reasons too, but so-called sexual liberation was quite one-sided. Women had to have a damn good reason for saying no, now that pregnancy was an unlikely result.

Even in the 80s I can remember blokes trying to coerce me because they assumed I must be on the pill and therefore constantly available - why would I say no? But I think gradually women realised they could say no, or yes, without giving reasons.

Perhaps the same thing will happen with this: women will realise they don't have to acquiesce to every sexual whim or practice unless they particularly want to. This is my hope.

I'm with you sirvix . DH is the only man I've ever had sex with. It's great and reading this, I apparently have a rare gem!!

Henna-My DH is my second partner, and I'm so grateful that we grew up in a different era, he is feminist and has never watched porn (he's 43, but we've been together for 20 years). I am strongly anti pornography, I'm with Andrea Dworkin there. Or Lucien Freud, who said that he wasn't interested in porn, because he was interested in love, and it had nothing to do with love.

I met one of Lucian Freud's many children once. This one hadn't seen him in years. I think his love was quite free-ranging. According to Wiki, he fathered as many as 40 children.

Yes, I don't think fidelity was his strong point!