Decision time - state grammar school or quasi-selective independent school

[Quattrocento]

We truly don't know what to do about DD's secondary education. She has always been in the independent sector and is in year 6 at her prep school. The independent school into which the prep school feeds is nice enough. But we entered her into the 11+ for a state grammar school, and we learned today that she'd passed the exam with a high enough mark to ensure a place. So we don't really know what to do. DD says she doesn't much mind what she does and wants to abdicate responsibility leave the decision to us.

I've made a list of the pros and cons for moving to the state grammar school

1. She gets to mix with a very broad range of backgrounds in terms of wealth BUT it's far less ethnically diverse. I like the idea of DD being able to mix across a broad social/racial spectrum.
2. The state grammar has slightly worse exam results BUT the intake is slightly brighter so the difference might be bigger than it appears.
3. The state grammar school has nothing much happening in the way of sporting stuff and DD is super-sporty.
4. The state grammar school doesn't seem to do much in terms of other out-of-school activities
5. The state grammar school seems to have lower standards of behaviour - lots of children quite badly dressed and swearing etc in a way that made little DD's eyes go round as saucers.
6. The state grammar school is going to save us around £80k on independent school fees. The fees are not an issue now but they would be if I were made redundant (looks nervously at global economic environment).

What do you think?

Prof

I know that is a consideration - her ds does seem to have changed a lot since changing schools

could just be age

Yes - it's difficult to explain this sporty stuff - glad you understand. DD slightly put off by the grammar school netball team (Mummy they'd just get stomped on) and no tennis team and indifferent hockey team. And this stuff really really matters to her.

Is there only one state grammar in your area? There are 6 withing striking distance of us and theya re all INCREDIBLY different - the only thing they have in common is very hight academic standards.

After driving past the Harrodian at kick out time today and wondering if there was a convention of wankers in massive fucking cars I would opt for any state school over that tbh

Honestly I was APPALLED.

DD wouldn't fit in as I have taught her to say "oh mummy LOOK a selfish person in a HORRID car" when she sees them in London

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Well I don't understand the sporty stuff. I'm utterly bemused by everybody being so fixated about sport all the time. All the schools we've visited - state and private - they all go on about sport. I don't care! Shut up about the bloody sport! I'm not interested in developing the whole person through sport, it's all nonsense, and they all look cold and I hate the outfits. SHUT UP WITH YOUR SLIDESHOW ABOUT SPORT.

[coughs]

Sorry.

Thing is grammar gives you the option to change to private if you wanted to. Instinct - oh and pathological hatred of outdoor team sports - says go for the grammar. The independent school sounds boring from what you've said. Teenagers should have lower standards of behaviour if they are doing it right. She'll work hard, make friends and be captain of the hockey team! She'll make them practice hard! I'd do a good sparky grammar over dullsville independent any day, if I had the choice.

Yes I'm totally bemused by this sporty stuff myself. If I hadn't been there when she was born I would swear she wasn't mine ...

That's a good point though, 100x. She can always go back to independent if she doesn't like the state grammar but moving the other way wouldn't be possible due to scarcity of grammar school places (rarer than hen's teeth around us).

I am waiting, with some trepidation, for Xenia to come and flagellate me for even thinking of ruining my daughter's entire future ...

I won't flame you, bloss - but I do question your assumption that state school parents don't know what a good school is. And I don't actually see what else my dd's state grammar school could offer.

I thought on the academic side the state grammars had trounced the indies this year

(sorry if I am coming across as anti independent schools here, I am not at all!)

Quattrocento I feel someof the 'whispered' comments on here to be misleading

State grammar schools are not

have you looked round the schools - read the ofsteds? There are some ill conceived sweeping generalisations on this thread

My sons' state grammar school gets outstanding overall

¨superb school in every respect

'Personal development and well-being are outstanding. The curriculum and extensive extra-curricular activities enable students to develop into mature and confident young adults who show an excellent sense of responsibility. There is a strong sense of striving for excellence throughout the school which the boys respond to. They are rightly proud of their school. Their thorough enjoyment of school is seen in very high levels of attendance and almost non existent instances of unauthorised absence. Opportunities for students' spiritual, moral, social and cultural development are extensive. Behaviour is excellent, both in lessons and around the school. Students act responsibly and maturely. They are polite, show consideration for others and respect each other's rights. The curriculum ensures students are aware of diversity, and recent links with a school in Sri Lanka provide a broader perspective outside the United Kingdom. Healthy lifestyles are promoted, especially through the extensive sporting opportunities'

No need to whisper about this state school - check outthe sport

gosh i am tired ...you get the gist

Well it depends how you look at it - on the grammar schools trouncing the indies.

The choices I have are between one independent and one state grammar. The grammar school is more selective and has a higher ability entry standard but the independent school gets better results though.

Which means that small class sizes and lots of focussed teaching pays off...

sorry to rant on but

'The curriculum is focused on academic subjects which is appropriate to the needs of the school's very able students. There are numerous extra-curricular activities, for example, 'The England National Fell Running champions', as well as sports and a range of clubs. These include foreign exchange trips, theatre trips, cultural trips to Greece, Cuba and Rome, and field trips to Iceland. Effective links with the local education business partnership contribute well to enterprise education. Students make the most of everything the school has to offer and uptake of these opportunities is excellent. For example, 80, Year 9 students recently signed up for a lunchtime GCSE astronomy course'.

Who could want more for their child?

My children are very lucky - but I wonder Quattrocento - what it is you feel your independant school would improve on here?

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Single sex... aha. I spent 13 years at a girls' school and didn't like it (the girls were obsessed with who had spoken to a boy and so on). However, I do now think it was a huge bonus: there was never any remote question of us being pushed into 'girly' or 'soft' subjects (quite the reverse!), and I do think it's easier to focus on work or hockey or messing about (as I tended to do) without boys as an added distraction.

Personally, I detest sport in all its forms. However, a sporty child is a sporty child, and it would seem that your DD's needs would be better met at an independent school. But I admit that I am biased towards indie schools anyway!

But I'm guessing that QC lives nowhere close to that school Ria, so there is no point in her comparing her local independent to it, is there ?

Ria - there's more to life (and school) than a glowing OFSTED.

We looked at a number of indie schools for DS some while ago. They all had splendiferous ISIS reports. We quite liked one, hated another, and fell madly in love with the third. What matters is the actual school and how you feel your actual child would get on there. Your grammar school is obviously perfect for your children; QC's grammar may or may not be perfect for her daughter. It isn't necessarily a state vs private thing, though!

No but none of us knows to which of the state grammars she is referring specifically ladymuck

I think the few remaining state grammars to be PRETTY much in the same ball park...

Ria I am not dissing state grammar schools - far from it - I'm just making a comparison between the two schools that are options for my DD.

The sporting thing would have been an irrelevance to me but is hugely relevant to DD. For now at least. And it's a good thing if a child has that sort of aptitude for it to be encouraged and a significant and integral part of school life.

posters are happily extolling the sporting prowess of independant schools

I am attempting to counter the argument by saying for example that state schools CAN also enjoy varied sports.....

I would be overjoyed if my dds got into a state grammar and saved us 80k

But for you I think it's a no brainer. Sport is the first issue. Then the ds issue - v hard to send her to a grammar and him private. Not to mention the logistics of your pick ups.

I don't think the all girls thing is an issue, I wennt to an all girls school until sixth form and I think it's advantageous to have some segregation at a time in your life when - ime - you are boy crazy. It won't put her at a competitive disadvantage she'll be with boys at uni and meet lots out of school anyway, plus she has a brother so won't think boys are an alien species (think girls with no brothers need a bit of exposure).

But on that subject. You could always send her to the private school with the option of moving her at sixth form. Places open up in grammar schools then or she could move to another private school, poss mixed. So this is not the end of the line decision wise. Good luck.

So Ria are you basically saying that QC's perception of her particular grammar school is incorrect?

Ultimately there are 2 specific schools being compared here, and QC outlined the key differences between them in her OP. I suppose that she could have said school A and school B but difference 6 was always going to give the game away.

QC, I really do think that this is a question for local friends who know you and dd, and the school options, well. And even then, if they can identify which school is the best fit for you and it ends up being the independent they still won't be able to tell you whether it is worth £80k more than the other, because again it depends on what else you would do with that money.

The ofsted reports for the state grammar in question rate it as outstanding in every domain. It has a degree of flexibility which is quite attractive - so if DD wants to do a couple of GCSEs early she can, Whereas the independent school is much more, erm, inflexible.

But the sports provision is by a massive measure worse in the state grammar - the ethos, the amount of training, the results of the teams ...

Whether DD will still be so passionate about sport as an adolescent is something else of course.